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  #171  
Old 07-20-2017, 07:57 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



..^............... brown LENOX examples ...............^


The timeline of the printing of these Group B subjects with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, LENOX, and UZIT backs was Jan - Feb 1911. This exact timeline coincides with the printing
of the T80 (Military Men) cards. Shown below, the T80 cards were printed with CAIRO MONOPOL, LENOX, OLD MILL, TOLSTOI, and UZIT backs.

To date, 23 brown LENOX cards are confirmed. If my theory proves true, I predict that 13 (or 14) more T206 cards may eventually be discovered with the brown LENOX backs.
Seventeen subjects of the 23 brown LENOX cards are from the 350/460 series, and 6 subjects are from the 460-only series......


350/460 series....Group B




350/460 series subjects confirmed with brown LENOX backs

Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Willetts
Willis (bat)


T80 cards




So, here is my hypothesis: The printer at American Lithographic failed to switch from the brown ink after press runs of T80 CAIRO MONOPOL backs to black ink prior to starting
a press run of T206 LENOX backs. Apparently, this mistake was caught quickly, which would explain why very few T206 brown LENOX examples exist.
Instead of QA discarding these brown LENOX cards, the sheets were factory-cut, and these brown LENOX cards were shipped along with the black LENOX cards to Factory #30.
And, inserted into LENOX cigarette packs.


The 6 brown LENOX cards from the 460-only series are from the same group of 9 subjects that are the only confirmed PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 cards in this series.

460-only series subjects confirmed with brown LENOX backs

Chase (trophy)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

I expect these 3 subjects from the 460-only series will eventually be found with brown LENOX backs......

Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)


Let's see your brown LENOX cards. If you have these very rare "gems", why not show them. So, please post them here.


TED Z
.
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  #172  
Old 07-20-2017, 11:52 PM
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Sean Sean is offline
Sean Costello
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Okay Ted, here's mine:

scan0029.jpg scan0030.jpg
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  #173  
Old 07-21-2017, 09:43 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Hey Sean

Thanks for posting your brown LENOX.


Will I see you in Chicago next week ?


TED Z
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  #174  
Old 07-22-2017, 01:32 AM
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Sean Costello
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Not this year Ted. I was hoping to go, but it didn't work out. Maybe next year, definitely in 2019.
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  #175  
Old 07-22-2017, 09:35 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Hey Sean

You will be missed.


TED Z
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Last edited by tedzan; 08-19-2017 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #176  
Old 07-24-2017, 01:16 PM
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Kin K.
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I want to thank Ted for this thread. I've been reading it over the last few evenings and will certainly be referencing it in the future.

The amount of information in this thread and Scot's book just blow my mind. I'm an analytical guy. My occupation is a retail analyst. All of this information is an overload for me. Hopefully, some of it will eventually sink in.
__________________
Collecting open-wheel/Indianapolis 500 related racing (attempting the T36 Auto Drivers set), T206 (all Scoops Carey & Woodie Thornton), 1955 All-American football and WVU related.

My card blog: I Feel Like a Collector Again

My Collector Focus page.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; ROAKs received from CW & LuckyLarry
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  #177  
Old 07-31-2017, 08:28 PM
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Kin K.
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As I mentioned before, there is so much info that I can't seem to get a good, solid grip on it all. One question I had is, on the SLers, are there factory variations as well as the three (or two) brand variations?

Any info is greatly appreciated and thank you for sharing all of this information that you've put together!

-kin

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





TheT206 set includes exactly 48 Southern League (SL) subjects....34 of which were printed with 3 different backs (brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350).
And, the other 14 of these cards were printed with just OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs.


Checklist of the 48 subjects in the SL series is broken down with respect to the cards with HINDU vs. the no HINDU cards........

34 subjects with brown HINDU, OLD MILL, and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bay
Bernhard
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster
Fritz
Greminger
Guiheen
Helm
Hickman
Hooker
Howard (Savannah)
Jordan (Atlanta)
Kiernan
Lafitte
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Molesworth
Mullaney
Otey
Paige
Perdue
Persons
Reagan
Revelle
Ryan
Shaughnessy
Sid Smith (Atlanta)
Thornton
Violat


14 subjects with only OLD MILL and PIEDMONT 350 backs

Bastian
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King
Lentz
Miller
Orth
Rockenfeld
Seitz
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Westlake
White (Houston)


Stay tuned....additional info regarding these Southern Leaguer's will follow. Including the Brown OLD MILL backs of some of the SL cards.
And, collecting the "Quadruplicate" sub-set of the twenty Southern Association cards.


TED Z
.
__________________
Collecting open-wheel/Indianapolis 500 related racing (attempting the T36 Auto Drivers set), T206 (all Scoops Carey & Woodie Thornton), 1955 All-American football and WVU related.

My card blog: I Feel Like a Collector Again

My Collector Focus page.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; ROAKs received from CW & LuckyLarry
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  #178  
Old 07-31-2017, 08:55 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, post your T206 story's

Hi Kin

I appreciate your kind compliments.


The answer to your question is......

OLD MILL and PIEDMONT are Factory #25.

HINDU is Factory #649.


Kin, it's a complicated set, so feel free to email me regarding any questions you have...... tedzan11@comcast.net



TED Z
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  #179  
Old 07-31-2017, 08:59 PM
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Kin K.
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Thank you so much, Ted. I'm working on the T36 set and in it, each card has a Hassan and Mecca back, and each of those has a Factory 30 and a Factory 649 back. Wasn't sure if that might be the case on these.

-kin

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Kin

I appreciate your kind compliments.


The answer to your question is......

OLD MILL and PIEDMONT are Factory #25.

HINDU is Factory #649.


Kin, it's a complicated set, so feel free to email me regarding any questions you have...... tedzan11@comcast.net



TED Z
.
__________________
Collecting open-wheel/Indianapolis 500 related racing (attempting the T36 Auto Drivers set), T206 (all Scoops Carey & Woodie Thornton), 1955 All-American football and WVU related.

My card blog: I Feel Like a Collector Again

My Collector Focus page.

Successful purchases from dnanln, pre1960sets, jp1216 & sebie43; ROAKs received from CW & LuckyLarry
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  #180  
Old 07-31-2017, 09:16 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
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Hi Kin,

Thanks for the nice words.

As Ted says there are just the three brand/factory combos for southern leaguers.

There is a footnote, however. A handful of southern leaguer cards having the Old Mill Southern back were printed in brown ink. These cards are all hand-cut i.e. scrap. Moreover, a couple of these Brown Old Mill Southerns (Greminger comes to mind) weirdly have a red Factory 649 overstrike stamp on them. If you search the Net54 archives you will find an image of the "freak" Greminger Brown Old Mill Southern Factory 649 Overstrike card somewhere.

Scot

Here's a link:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=147870

Last edited by sreader3; 07-31-2017 at 09:21 PM.
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