T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, it was "the start of of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Claude Raines to Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

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INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns in T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 514.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





1st Tale......
My old-time friend, Ralph, discovered the Herzog UZIT in a collection he acquired (circa 1990's) in his hometown in the Great Smoky Mountain area of North Carolina.
He knew what kind of a "nut" I am about T206's with scarce backs, so we did a nice trade. But, he did not know how scarce this Herzog card was, until I subsequently
informed him that it was the only known Herzog with a UZIT back. So we arrived at an additional cash amount (to him) to complete the deal. As of this date, this card
remains unique.


2nd Tale...…
About two years ago, I acquired a T206 collection from an long-time collector who attended Philly area shows (circa 1970's). He had acquired a small T206 collection at
the Philly Show which included this McGraw / UZIT card.
The McGraw (glove) card is in the "Exclusive 12" group of the 460-only series. So far, only 5 of these 12 subjects have been found with the UZIT back. And each one of
these 5 subjects are unique T206 UZIT cards. This front / back combo is extremely scarce with the Exclusive 12 group.


T206's with the UZIT back were issued in the Spring of 1911. The UZIT and AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards were printed together at the tail-end of the T206 press runs.

It's my opinion that the UZIT back is 2nd to the BROAD LEAF 460 in terms of scarcity (normally printed T206 T-brands).


58 subjects with the UZIT back have been confirmed to date (Sept 7, 2018).

350/460 series...............................28 subjects

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball-St Louis)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)

Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Doc White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)

I am 100% confident that the above list of 28 of the 350/460 subjects is complete (as it coincides with the confirmed list of AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 subjects for
the 350/460 series).


460-only series..............................30 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Howie Camnitz (arms up)
Harry Camnitz (arms side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap) **
Frill
Geyer **
Herzog (Boston)
Hummel **
Lake (ball-St Louis)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip) **
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)

Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove) **
Tinker (bat on)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

** Exclusive 12


The 460-only series list is still a work in progress....I expect that as many as 16 more UZIT cards from this series will eventually be discovered.



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Double post due to power failure.

[tedzan]

A Net54er emailed me. Telling me that the Herzog / UZIT card which I claim to be unique is not so. He says that 2 different Pop Reports (SGC and PSA) list this card graded.

What he does not realize is that both these Pop Reports reflect the same card. I sold this Herzog card (graded SGC 45) to David Hall (for his T206 Master set) two years ago.
David is a PSA guy, so he had this card re-graded. David lost 1/2 a point in the process as PSA graded it a "3". The Net54er appreciated my explanation.

Anyhow, this is perfect example of why one cannot always absolutely trust Pop Report data to be an accurate representation of a rare card such as this Herzog.


TED Z
.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by tedzan

A Net54er emailed me. Telling me that the Herzog / UZIT card which I claim to be unique is not so. He says that 2 different Pop Reports (SGC and PSA) list this card graded.

What he does not realize is that both these Pop Reports reflect the same card. I sold this Herzog card (graded SGC 45) to David Hall (for his T206 Master set) two years ago.



TED Z
.

there was a Uzit Herzog sold in REA in 2013, so apparently there is more than one. or did you buy the one in REA, ted and then sold it to Hall 2 years ago?

https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...-only-example/

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

there was a Uzit Herzog sold in REA in 2013, so apparently there is more than one. or did you buy the one in REA, ted and then sold it to Hall 2 years ago?

https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...-only-example/[/QUOTE]


Ronnie.....I stated my timeline wrong.


.....First, I'll reprise my story which I posted in Post #499 of how I acquired this Herzog card.

" 1st Tale......
My old-time friend, Ralph, discovered the Herzog UZIT in a collection he acquired (circa 1990's) in his hometown in the Great Smoky Mountain area of North Carolina.
He knew what kind of a "nut" I am about T206's with scarce backs, so we did a nice trade. But, he did not know how scarce this Herzog card was, until I subsequently
informed him that it was the only known Herzog with a UZIT back. So we arrived at an additional cash amount (to him) to complete the deal. As of this date, this card
remains unique. "


At the 2013 National, David Hall was at my booth, and asked me "what kind of goodies do you have for me this time ? " I offered him this Herzog / UZIT card (which I
knew he didn't have in his Master set. He recommended that I consign it to the Fall REA Auction. Of course he was the winning bidder.

Compare the SGC serial number of the above card on display with the one in REA....THEY ARE THE SAME.

I hope you get it now......as of this date, this Herzog card is still the only known one with a UZIT back.


Sorry if I confused you, I got my years mixed up. Time is moving too fast for me. So it was 5 years ago (not 2 years ago) when David Hall acquired this card from me.


TED Z
.

[RedsFan1941]

thanks ted. i get it now.

david hall bought the uzit herzog in REA. not from you.

thanks for clearing that up.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

thanks ted. i get it now.

david hall bought the uzit herzog in REA. not from you.

thanks for clearing that up.

Ronnie


I offered the card to David Hall, and gave him a price which I thought was very fair, considering this T206 was one of a kind.

David was being fair to me by suggesting that I consign it to REA. In order to see what value this card would rise to. Both of
us knew from the start of this potential transaction that he would win this card.
Therefore, in effect, he bought it from me. I have sold him many T206's over the years. So, I don't understand what you are
driving at ? ?


TED Z
.