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#1
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
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#2
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'55 all americans
Posted By: davidcycleback
I agree that it is dubious to have have half grades on some numbers but not others. My guess is that PSA wanted to preserve the perceived sanctity and market value of the 10s. Obviously, market value should not be used as factor in determining an objective grading system for condition, but PSA is a business and they're not going to introduce a grading system they believe will lose them money. |
#3
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Doug
Did you get any 10s at all? I used to submit a ton of early '80s Topps cards that I personally pulled straight from packs and I only got three 10s out of all the cards I sent in. |
#4
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Glyn Parson
If you had posted prior to submitting we all could have told you not to expect many if any 10's. Also you should be happy if you pulled alot of 9's on 55 AA They will bring big money even on commons. I never submit anything before 1980 expecting 10's, no matter how nice. that is just the way it is, not saying its right or wrong that is just how it is. PS should be on Football or postwar board. Also how about some scans. |
#5
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'55 all americans
Posted By: davidcycleback
Most buyers of high end cards are going to both look at the number grade and the card itself. Their pricing isn't based strictly on what SGC or PSA says. The real 9.5 may be when bidders price one 9 over another 9 because they agree the first card is superior. |
#6
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Steve
Just because a card comes straight from a pack does not mean |
#7
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
Out of approx. 500 cards submitted for grading, with attention paid to centering and corners before submission (the gloss and sharpness is always pack fresh), I rec'd 18 Gem Mint 10's on my AA's. Thus far, the Pop report went from 7 to 25. I'm not yet done with submissions for reviews, as some 9's have already bumped. I am pissed as I recently submitted a perfect Rockne and a perfect Horseman to be done same day and paid $250 each for grading, and they only came back as 9's. They are so immaculate, it is impossible for them not to be 10's. I calipered the borders and they are both about 47-53. I'll post some scans of 10's at a later date. The best 10's thus far are Hutson, Baugh, Rockne, and Nevers. Again, I understand PSA does not want to give out 10's on anything vintage, however, why have standards then? The only standard I see is "subjectivity". In addition, I won't be satisfied until I have a Four Horseman grade 10. That is now my life's mission. |
#8
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Matt
Just one man's opinion, but if the card is perfect in your eyes, then be happy with it. It shouldn't matter if PSA agrees with your assessment. Maybe my eyes are bad from looking at too many caramels, but you could show me a mix of 100 9s and 10s blind and I'm sure my guesses would have little correlation to what PSA thought was a 9 vs. a 10. |
#9
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'55 all americans
Posted By: dan mckee
I love grading. You should have had an auction house submit them for you, you would have received more 10's. |
#10
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Eric Pugh
there is only one problem with grading: some people think it is actually objective. |
#11
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'55 all americans
Posted By: leon
To the original poster. First of all welcome to our forum. If you will read at the top of the page this particular forum is for Pre-wwII cards. We have a forum for post war cards and, for the most part, that is where this should have gone....take care |
#12
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
I understand the categories, however, I wanted the opinions and feedback from far more collectors, like yourself, then the few and far between on the Postwar football blog. The pre war category seems to have tenfold any thing else here, and seems likely to find more intelligent and serious collectors. If I crossed the line, accept my apology. Also, having found several unopened 53 year old Topps cards and sharing my experiences with them I would think to be found as interesting to most everyone here. |
#13
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Tom Boblitt
that had an auction company had them graded on your behalf to be auctioned, that they would have gained a half grade or two here and there. |
#14
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
Or a large dealer? I have been recommended to consider utilizing Steve Hart's services at the Baseball Card Exchange. I know he is now used by PSA for veryifying the authenticity of unopened material. He seems like a straight shooter. Anybody have experiences with him good, bad or otherwise? |
#15
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Bob
I agree with Tom. Years ago I had a major auction house tell me (upon my submission) that they were going to submit my cards for grading because they could get higher grades than I could. Draw your own conclusions.... |
#16
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'55 all americans
Posted By: leon
It's not a national security issue for posting post war here but there are rules for a reason. I, more than anyone, understand the participation across all of our forums. I fully appreciate what you said. That being the case the correct way to do it would have been to post over there on the post war side...and, after a day or two, if there was very little response, then post over here. For the record I don't consider our post war friends any less intelligent (most are the same that post here anyway) than us pre war guys...Once again, not a big deal but I thought I would let you know how it would be preferred....take care and happy holidays |
#17
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
Fyi - I posted the same at the same time on both the Baseball and Football Postwar blogs and thus far have a grand total of one response. Again, if my '55 All American questions and experiences are out of line here, I am gone...............No big deal. |
#18
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'55 all americans
Posted By: leon
If you post on both sides at exactly the same time what do you expect? Most of our post war guys are pre war also so they would answer here instead.... In the future if you post over there give it a day...then try the other sides if you get little, or no, response.........And if you have any questions you can always email me....thanks again for your participation and happy collecting |
#19
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Steve Murray
I think we're being a little too technical on the "Vintage" versus "Postwar" distinction. |
#20
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Todd Schultz
I believe the original poster would have more success on the CU/PSA boards: |
#21
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'55 all americans
Posted By: davidcycleback
I saw the main point of the initial post as PSA's grading and half grades. 1955 football cards were merely the vehicle that lead to the post. Thus, I saw it as an appropriate topic for this section. Notice that the post produced responses mostly about grading. |
#22
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Jodi Birkholm
I will side with Steve and David on this one, as it's a topic that is of great interest to most card collectors. After all, I'm sure PSA would treat a 1950's issue in the same fashion it would the Goudeys of two decades before. In actuality, I think it is a pertinent topic which could/should be posted in every card forum. It's a very interesting subject, even to this non-card collector. |
#23
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'55 all americans
Posted By: John S
Steve, |
#24
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'55 all americans
Posted By: leon
I guess the small issue I had was really with the title itself. If it had said...issues with PSA Grading....instead of something that is in conflict with what this forum is, then I might not have taken it the wrong way...But ya know what.....who cares....happy holidays... |
#25
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'55 all americans
Posted By: davidcycleback
It has Jim Thorpe in it, and Amos Alonzo Stagg coached Pre-War college baseball at the same time he coached football. |
#26
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Anthony N.
To answer a previous question, I can't say enough good things about Steve Hart. Honest, personable, a pleasure to deal with. |
#27
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Jodi Birkholm
Johnnie Cochran collected cards? |
#28
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Bobby Reynolds played minor league baseball. |
#29
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'55 all americans
Posted By: David Smith
My take on this? |
#30
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
You said what I expected to hear about Steve Hart. I really appreciate your feedback and honesty. Sorry Leon, seems my title may have been inappropriate for the prewar forum, but it looks as if the topics are acceptable and insightful. |
#31
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Glyn Parson
Mr. Macdoube, could you please describe how you examine your cards and i may be able to give you a hint or two to let you better see the card in the same atmosphere and use the same methods as the graders. in all honesty though i can not feel sorry for your grades a 10 is fairly hard to justify in most vintage cases as their is always some flaw on any card, even modern, with the exception of some of these rounded corner metal cards that are produced today. Your best bet is to just keep submitting. Is this fair ,No, is this the way it should be, NO, but from 16 years experience submitting cards that is just the way it is. You are not going to come to the game this late and change the rules. I am sorry if you dont like that but that is reality. I agree with you that it should not be but it is what it is. With the $$$ these 10's will bring I just cant feel sorry for your grades. If your 9's are truly as outstanding as you state they will bring a premium over an average 9 anyway. |
#32
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Eric Pugh
If you dont mind sharing, what's the history behind these pristine specimens? I would love to know as i am sure most everyone here would like to know as well. It's not everyday we learn of such a find of mint 50 year old cards. THanks! |
#33
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Andrew Saboley
Just wondering if anyone else is having doubts about somebody finding 500 mint 1955 Topps All Americans in unopened cello packs after 53 years? |
#34
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
OK - I may get in trouble for this post from Leon, but anyway, it seems a lot of you are interested in the AA's. Several cello packs were found in a Southern California closet by my close friend. His father was formerly an owner of a toy store that was in business in the 50's. His Dad had some Trading Card Guild boxes leftover from when he closed shop about 50 years ago. Apparently, he really liked the set (who doesn't?) and just tucked these boxes away for about 30 years. Upon his death in the late 80's my pal found them in his closet and showed them to me, as I have avidly collected cards since I was a kid in the 60's. I knew they were incredible even then, as unopened material was starting to get a lot of press and notoriety. I gave him some of the values then, and I think in the late 80's the Thorpe booked for around $50. I recommended that he sit on them, keep them unopened, and just monitor their values from time and time. Fortunately, money has not been a huge object for him, so the cards did not need to be sold, or even opened. |
#35
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
Dude, they are real. They are mint in every respect except for centering on some, and corners on very few (as tightly wrapped cellos sometimes bugger up the corners of the top and bottom card on the packs). |
#36
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Dan Bretta
If I may ask, are you going to be selling these? And if so did you happen to get a Bobby Reynolds? About what should I expect to pay for a PSA 9 Reynolds? |
#37
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'55 all americans
Posted By: leon
I am not that bad of a guy....we are already here and I, and we, appreciate you explaining the find. My only small concern at this point is that if you are going to talk about a grading company you need to be careful of anonymity. I think we are over the posting venue issue....again, when I see "'55 all americans" as the title, and it's not from an every day poster, and on the main board, I have a legitimate concern.....as far as this thread goes...please keep going. (It was never personal, btw).....take care |
#38
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'55 all americans
Posted By: fred
i would just love to see the scans of these cards. i have a complete set in psa 6-7 with a coupole of 8s but i would love to see these |
#39
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
I think we only have two Bob Reynolds in grade 9 (no tens) and we will be keeping these for our registered sets. I will check that and confirm if you are seriously interested. I have a 8.5 that is damn good, and I can post a scan if you like. Thus far we have not yet sold any high grade cards. In 2008 one Reynolds 8.5 has sold ($430.00) and only one 8 sold ($390.00). The SMR lists an 8 at $390.00 plus. If I were to sell the 8.5, I would likely be looking for around $500.00. |
#40
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Anonymous
I find this story and the pics very interesting. Add 10-11 years to each of the timelines. We could have 500 pristine, fresh from the wrapper, 1933 Goudeys. |
#41
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'55 all americans
Posted By: NickM
and you're complaining?????? |
#42
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
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#43
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Scott Fandango
cant wait to see the scans! WOW PSA 10 PACKS!!!!! AMAZING |
#44
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Steve
Mac you can tell the difference between a nine and a ten? |
#45
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
If you examine the 18 PSA 10's and 70 or so PSA 9's that we have had graded recently, knowing all are fresh from the same packs, you can definetely pick out several 9's that appear as good (if not better) than some of the 10's. In our pre-submission evaluations we use calipers, intense and proper lighting, and jeweler's loops. We feel that of those 70 or so 9's, at least 15 of them are as good as any on the 18 tens. Again, it appears PSA and many of you (The Prewar vintage baseball guys) feel that a GEM MINT grade 10 has this aura about it and needs preservation for the select few and far between. Not grading a card that qualifies well within PSA's grading guidelines a 10 because of this is nonsense. Duh! |
#46
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Rob D.
What a relief to see this thread pop back up to the top. And with interesting, new information, too! |
#47
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'55 all americans
Posted By: leon
Rob- I couldn't agree more. Since we are talking 10's I thought I would show the only 10 I am interested in....(besides my wife, of course).. |
#48
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Steve
Mac is it possible that the 10's that you did get should/could have been 9's? |
#49
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'55 all americans
Posted By: macboube
Yes, there is one 10 in particular we were amazed that it did get a 10. It is the worst of the 18 and we thought it should have been a 9. |
#50
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'55 all americans
Posted By: Scott Dango
this is such a great thread....still waiting for any visual proof of this "story" |
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