T206 sheet arrangement

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Posted By: Frank B

I thought that the sheets were set up with the same player running vertically.
How common is a card like this Snodgrass with Maddox on top?

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Not that common, but they are seen from time to time.

In the 350-only series, four Pirates (Abstein, Maddox, D. Miller and Phillippe) were printed in larger quantities owing to Pittsburg's 1909 World Series victory. I believe this was done by giving these four players their own vertical strip on a 350-only T206 sheet as well as 1/2 of another player's strip. Thus, so the theory goes, Maddox received his own vertical strip as well as being alternated with Snodgrass (Batting) on another vertical strip. Phillippe received his own vertical strip as well as being alternated with Engle on another vertical strip (another board member has a miscut Phillippe/Engle card demonstrating this). This probably means that Engle, Snodgrass (Batting) and two other 350-only subjects were similarly long-printed.

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Were there any sheets produced where a player would be depicted only once?

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Corey,

I have not seen any evidence to support the idea of "single prints" on T206 sheets, but I wouldn't rule it out. My theory of "vertical alternation" for Maddox/Snodgrass, Engle/Phillippe and other cards with two distinct subjects is speculative. The layout could be otherwise.

Scot

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Posted By: Deb Johnson

For what it's worth, in the t206museum.com set gallery, McGraw, portrait no cap, has a Chesbro above him.

Editted to add this address to neat 'different name' scans in a recent thread about miscut cards:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1204431029/last-1204735855/Re-+T206+Mitchell+Miscut+%2B+McGraw+with+possible+Fac tory+Stamp-

I get the impression from this past thread that cards like yours are pretty rare. Hope this helps.

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Thanks Scot.

I've always been intrigued about the following aspect of the Gretzky Wagner. The great majority of people knowledgable about T206s with whom I've discussed the card over the past number of years do not believe that card was ever inserted into a cigarette pack, but was instead cut from a sheet. If that was case (and I agree with that assessment), and IF Piedmont sheets were never manufactured with single-print cards, then there had to be at least one other Wagner on that sheet. So where might it(they) be? To my knowledge there is one other confirmed Piedmont Wagner. It was sold by REA several years ago and was graded authentic. That card, besides being in much poorer condition (for reasons going beyond the hand-cut borders), also had a much cruder cutting than the Gretzky Wagner, suggesting it was not cut from the same sheet as the Gretzky Wagner.

To add to the intrigue, here's another possibility that I can't rule out, though on this one I should disclose that the majority of T206 experts with whom I've discussed this issue do not regard it as a realistic possibility. Didn't Bill Heitman, author of the legendary "T206 Monster" on this board describe in the 1950's professional printers using original printing plates to remake vintage cards (including T206s) but with different backs? IF in fact that happened, then is it not possible that the Gretzky Wagner is a 1950's remake? That would provide an explanation why for its condition and brand the card is unique; single-print cards on remake sheets make a lot of sense. Also on this board there was a detailed thread about ink patterns and the practical impossibility (short of expending staggering sums of money) to in the 1950's create under high magnification the precise dot matrix pattern of a T206 manufactured in 1909. But, and here's my point, just because something might be revealed under high magnification doesn't mean it can be revealed to the unaided eye, even of the most experienced expert, especially if the original plates were used. Ink colors are ink colors. Don't many original Wagners differ from one another in terms of the vibrancy of the hues? Also too isn't there a hand-cut T206 Piedmont Plank extant that is theorized to have been cut from the same sheet as the Wagner? If so, are there other Planks known with the Piedmont back? And here's another thing, when I inquired at the time of the sale I was told the Piedmont Wagner sold by REA had a provenance going back only to the 1950's. Had it gone back earlier, than that would be convincing evidence that Piedmont Wagners predated this 1950's remake event Mr. Heitman describes. Then there is the subtle print line on the Gretzky Wagner. Are other T206s known with such a characteristic? Is it possible it was inserted to make clear the card should not be confused as an original?

In discussing all this, I want to make clear that I am not saying the Gretzky Wagner is a remake. However, I do not believe that possibility has been conclusively ruled out. Bill Heitman is a very respected person in this hobby and I don't believe information he provided should be summarily dismissed. I would love for the new owners to agree to let the card be examined under high magnification, an examination that for all practical purposes could eliminate any notion the card is a remake.

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

...that Mastro admitted the Gretzky Wagner was cut from a proof strip. I think the 50's reprint theory has been substantially discounted as well and there are threads here about that. I am not surprised provenance does not extend past the 50's-a lot of Tobacco and Caramel cards were likely not discovered until then.

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Dave,

Thanks for your response. Yes, there have been threads on this question. I raised it again in light of the question whether T206 sheets had single-print cards on them and the implication that question has on the 1950's remake theory.

You're probably correct in that most of the experts out there think the notion that the Gretzky Wagner is a 1950's remake to be out of the realm of reasonable possiblility. I said as such in my post. But it is the rationale behind that conclusion that intrigues me. The only reason given is that the card passes the "looks right to unaided eye" test. And I am respectfully opining based on the other factors I mentioned that until the card is examined under high magnification that possibility cannot be eliminated.

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Posted By: Aaron Conyers

"Then there is the subtle print line on the Gretzky Wagner. Are other T206s known with such a characteristic?"

That question reminded me of a card that I have. Although it is not the same print line. It is on a Lajoie Portrait. The interesting part is attached to this card's back is part of another back with print lines. These print lines I have never seen on another T-206.