1928 w502 vs. 1931 w502 ?

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Posted By: steve

Just posted - my PSA submission of what I thought was a 1928 w502 Rogers Hornsby. PSA posted it as a 1931 w502 card. I looked at PSA population reports - 60 total 1928 w502 cards graded - Only ONE (1) 1931 w502 ever graded. Are the 1931's really that rare? If so, my Hornsby is the 2nd 1931 ever graded by PSA. What is the difference between the '28's and the '31's ? Was hoping for a "6", posted a "NM 7" Woo Hoo !!! Steve.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Wow - NICE. I'm assuming you just purchased the Hornsby from a grouping that was recently on eBay? If so, I got two of them as well - a very nice Red Faber and Pie Traynor. The cards that were sold were very clean and pretty sharp.

Anyway, my experience (I'm collecting the 1928 W502s) is that the 1931s are much more scarce than the 1928s. The 1928s are pretty scarce as well, and have as many as 18 different back variations (although at this point I have only counted seven that I can document as existing).

There are two different checklists between the two sets; you can obtain them both from the Standard Catalog, I believe. There is some commonality between the players in both sets but the card numbers are different. I don't know enough about the 1931s to know if any of the pictures are the same.

-Al

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

at least some of the pictures are the same. Bill Terry's is not, though, which is allright, since his 1928 card is really Zeb Terry.

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Was there a 1931 W502 Bill Dickey in the group on ebay? I've always wanted to see one.

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Posted By: Andy

Al-

Old Cardboard only has three backs listed for the 1928 W-502's. I don't know much about these and would really like if you could give some more detail regarding the other backs that you know of? I'm just really curious about them. Also, since old cardboard doesn't have the 1931 issue listed, is there any difference in the appearance of the two?

Thanks,

Andy

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Andy:

The 1931s look very similar to the 1928s.

I've got some info on my website about them that I just put up last weekend. It's a work in progress. www.swingbattaswing.com.

Essentially there are a handful of different phrases on the backs of the cards: "One Bagger", "One Bagger - Hold What You Got", "Three Bagger", "Home Run", and then a Home Run back with a prize redemption. I'm assuming that there's also a Two Bagger out there somewhere. Then there are blank backs.

The printing can also be found from bottom-to-top or from top-to-bottom on the backs of the cards.

I've been asking 54 members for help in cataloging the back types, and I've gotten pretty limited response thus far, so if anyone has W502s and would like to help me out, let me know who the players are and what's on the back!

-Al

Edit: I've also heard of prize redemption on one bagger and three bagger backs as well, but have not seen any.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

More info for Andy:

Here's a (poor) scan of a 1931 W502:



Here's a (better) scan of a 1928 W502:



-Al

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Posted By: Jerry

Here's my one and only, don't know if it's 1928 or 31.
It's a blank back

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Posted By: Andy

Al-

Thanks for the response. I'm always ready to learn from you more advanced collectors. I'll be sure to let you know of any backs that I happen to come across in the future.

Andy

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Andy:

My pleasure - but there's nothing whatsoever about me that is "advanced."

That Roush is a 1928. Thanks for the feedback on the back variation!

-Al

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Posted By: steve

So ultimately, what makes a 1931 the 1931 ? And what makes a 1928 the 1928 ? Side by side how can you tell the two years apart? Size, picture, numbering, back text or blank? Basically, how does one distinguish from the two ? Thanks for your help and comments, Steve.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I have my 1931s in one place and my 1928s in another, so I won't be able to tell you until tomorrow if there's a size variance between the two. But you can most definitely tell by the checklists. As you can see from the scans, the cards are numbered on the front.

Here is the 1928 Checklist:

1Grimes
2Ruether
3Dugan
4Faber
5Hartnett
6Ruth
7Meusel
8Pennock
9Burns
10Sewell
11Uhle
12O'Farrell
13Hornsby
14Traynor
15Mitchell
16Rixey
17Mays
18Luque
19Bancroft
20Kelly
21Combs
22Heilmann
23Schalk
24Mostil
25Wilson
26Gehrig
27Cobb
28Speaker
29Lazzeri
30Hoyt
31S. Smith
32Carey
33Hargrave
34Gonzales
35Judge
36Rice
37Sheeley
38aJones
38bRigney
39Falk
40aAltrock
40bKamm
41S. Harris
42McGraw
43Nehf
44Alexander
45Waner
46Terry
47Wright
48E. Smith
49Goslin
50Frisch
51J. Harris
52Williams
53Roush
54Sisler
55Rommel
56Peckinpaugh
57Covaleskie
58Bell
59Bancroft
60McInnis

If the card follows the numbering convention above, it's a 1928. The only commonality in numbering between the two sets is with #25 Hack Wilson (which actually shows a photo of Art Wilson in the 1928 set so it should be easy to determine which is which), and #59 Dave Bancroft. I do not have a Bancroft so I can't tell you what either card looks like. Anybody here got a '28 or '31 Bancroft?

-Al

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Posted By: steve

Al, I think you are right - the numbering scheme is the telltale difference. But I can hardly believe the 1931's are so rare, PSA has now only graded two, ever, wow. Thanks, steve - p.s. I still don't think they are hand-cut like PSA slabs.

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Posted By: Mike

I have 31 Foxx 502, grade 6 PSA. It's the only one I've seen. They certainly are rarer than many realize. And actually, I think it is quite an attractive card. At least I like it.

Edited to add, I second the motion that they "are not" hand cuts as PSA states. If you look at the edges under a good manifying glass, they don't appear as if they were hand cut. Very smooth and straight. Just an opinion. Maybe some were hand cut, but not mine.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

There is absolutely no way these cards are hand cut - 1928s or 31s. They're all the same size, they've all got square corners (or rounded ones consistent with normal wear).

If you look at any other hand-cut issue, there are telltale signs in many of the cards - bad cuts, tears, jagged edges. Not so with the 502s.

-Al

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Posted By: Mike

Al, I fully concur with your conclusion.

Edited to also add that is my Grade 6 Foxx on the PSA pop report. That pop. report sure makes them look obscure. Pop reports do serve a purpose we all know the obvious flaws involved in using them as a bible.

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Posted By: steve

Mike, would you consider selling/trade your 1931 w502 Foxx PSA 6 ? Would go great with my Hornsby. Could go vice versa is you really want the Hornsby. Steve

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Posted By: Mike

For the most part, certainly not exclusively, I collect Foxx related items. I've got hundreds of things, going well beyond old cardboard. So I can't sell or trade it. I may never find another as nice. But I appreciate the offer. FYI I do have a magazine framed in my office with Hornsby on the cover. One of the few non Foxx items covering my walls. It's the October 25th, 1928 or 29 (I forget which ) Arena wrestling magazine. Hornsby's big smiley face. I believe I bought it because there is something regarding Foxx inside. I'm not taking it out of the frame to look. Thanks again for the offer though. But can't.

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Posted By: Mike

Here's the only 1931 W502 in PSA's pop. report