Scarcity of M116 backs

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Posted By: Richard Masson

Since Lew didn't get to the Ms in his encyclopedia, I know very little about the scarcity of the backs in the M116 set. Looking through my group, I find three different types.
How many backs are there?
Do all M116s come in all three back variations?
Or does it break down by series?
Which is common, which is scarce?

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

Do all M116s come in all three back variations?

NO


Or does it break down by series?


YES


Which is common, which is scarce?

T-bob is your source for accurate info RM. Hopefully,he will chime in.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

while i am sure resident researcher Tim Newcomb will chime in, the normal set offers the 1st 21 series with either the 1st or 3rd back you picture. SOME of these can also be found with the 300 series back and were probably issued later in the team "series" envelopes. on series 22-24 we find the 300 series subjects which are the toughies to find in the set. normally anytime you find a 300 series back you have a tough card, but not always, again as they could have been the reissued back. similar to the anomoly of the T207 where any card that comes with a recruit won't be found with a cycle or broadleaf, BUT you will find an occasional anonymous.

Scott

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Posted By: Richard Masson

OK. I think I understand. Series 1-21 with the two common backs. Series 22-24 with the "300 subject" backs, generally.
What else do we know about distribution?
I have many of the envelopes. After series 1-24, the next I have is #50, Philadelphia Amer., I have seven team envelopes up to #76, New York National.
Query- what is contained in series 25-49?
I assume the non-major league series between 50 and 76 are for minor leagues or minor league teams? I didn't think there were that many in the set (76 - 50 = 26; 16 major league teams, so 10 "other" series).
What is the state of the art in the knowledge of this set?

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Sorry I didn't see this post when it cropped up over the holidays. I won't go into huge detail here, as I don't want to anticipate all of Bob's and my material for the projected article--

but i will correct a couple of misapprehensions expressed in the post:

-- the "300 Subjects" backs appear on the cards from Series 19-24, not 22-24. There are thus 72 players that appear only with this back. There are some anomalies concerning this back and certain lower-series cards, which I'll get into later.

-- I believe all 19-24 series cards are scarce to some degree. However, it appears that possibly 15-20% of them are somewhat less scarce than the rest. The less scarce cards don't correspond neatly to any of the numerical series. We're working on a theory of reissues that accounts for this. But I don't think it's right to call any of the 19-24 groups "commons". They are all definitely short-printed cards.

Tim

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Posted By: jim

Scott, how do you tell by looking at the card, if you have one of the scarce 300 issue series or the re-issued 300 series?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I have a Cy Young that PSA labeled as a "BLUE BACK"...

so what does that mean?

(I can't see the back because the card is in the safe deposit box)

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Posted By: Josh K.

I believe blue "back" refers to the color of the printing on the back of the card (which can be blue or black). If it says blue "background", I believe it refers to the background color on the front of the card.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Ahh... that makes sense.

I thought they had just mislabeled my "Pastel" background Young card as a "Blue" background Young card.


So if the BACK of my card is printed in BLUE...

is there any way to know which series it would be from?

Or were ALL of the series printed in BOTH colors?

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

A few more details to clarify:

Series 1 and 2 cards are found with either blue or pastel backgrounds behind the player's picture.

Series 3 cards are found with either black ink on the back, or blue ink like all the other series. Hal, the Cy Young is a Series 3 card, and so PSA indicates that yours has blue ink on the back.

Series 19-24 cards are found ONLY with 300 Subject backs.

Very occasionally you may run across a lower series card which also has this back. If these players also appear with non-"300 Subjects" backs, they are late issues, probably issued with the "Team series". These variations most frequently appear on cards of low-series players who are relatively common, and so they haven't attracted that much attention among collectors. However, they are wholly genuine and should be considered at least slightly scarce. They are not "reissues" in the sense of a later reprint.

A complete--though not wholly accurate--list of which players appear in which series can be found in Lew Lipset's article in VCBC #6. We expect that the article we're working on will clarify this question more fully.

Tim

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I have a pastel BG Mathewson with a series of 300 back. Where does that fall in the spectrum/should there be a multiplier on the value?