1913 Voskamps question

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Posted By: zach

I was doing a research and talking with Eric aka GoudeyHunter about Voskamps and was wondering if anyone here has any information to offer on them ? I know they were issued with coffee somehow and in 1913 depicting the whole Pirates team, but how often do they show and are they alawys in high demand ? The last one I saw being sold was by Lipset on ebay and it went for a little over $450. Thanks

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Posted By: barrysloate

I sold two at auction a couple of years ago and they were very popular. They are nice photographic images, are bona fide type cards, and the only vintage cards I can think of that came with coffee. Has anyone seen the Wagner from the set?

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Posted By: zach

Thanks Barry, I was wondering but not sure if they were the only cards produced with coffee. I may be wrong but I dont think there is a complete set ?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Never heard of a complete set, but it could exist.

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Posted By: leon

I had about 18 before, that I bought from John Ramirez, a few years ago. There was no Wagner but I did keep Carey (the other HOF in the set) for my personal collection. I do believe there is a complete set somewhere but forget where. As for this being the only Coffee card I don't think so....though this is a stamp on my card it's still legit.....regards

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Posted By: Glen V

As far as coffee issues, there's the Arbuckle Trade Card. Also, Leon found a Cafe du Monde card.

M Wheat had 4-5 Voskamps for sale a number of years ago. He acquired a collection heavy on Pirates. The whole group contained a few Wagners, but I can't remember if it included a Voskamps Wagner.

.

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Posted By: zach

I've seen a wagner before....someone on here owns one maybe they'll post it later. How high of a demand do they cards have ? I imagine they're on alot of peoples wantlists ?

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Posted By: Andy Baran

There was a Voskamps Wagner that was sold by Mike Wheat a few years ago. It was in deplorable condition. I don't know who owns it now. I do know one board member who owns one currently.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

One of my favorite American cards:






-Ryan

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Posted By: zach

Ryan- amazing card ! Does anyone have any org. advertising for voskamps ?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ryan- First class card for sure. I don't think I've seen that one before.

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

Well finally got our internet working yesterday after Willma just in time for your auction - thanks for some nice items. Now need phones. I once had a complete set of these cards and foolishly sold them in a auction about 6 years ago. Got the Voscamps from several sources including Wayne Varner and Mike Wheat. I believe that there are two different Wagner cards or I had two Wagners. Getting old and don't remember clearly. Will dig into my records and see. I also love those cards and have regretted selling them and my E107 Plank since the moment I consigned them, but I guess that not too bad for the amount that I have consigned over the years.

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Posted By: Scott Gross

What a Great card set ....
But, checking out players list on reverse: I beleive the second baseman's card value has decreased significantly in recent months ...
(Sorry, only on first cup of coffee ... )

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

LEON

The first time I saw any of these was back in 1981 at the
Philly Show. I think it was at Rick Starks' table (a great
dealer from Erie, PA). About a dozen cards (no Wagner). He
said they were only issued in the western Pennsylvania area.
They were issued as premiums to sell the coffee and a complete
set would get you a Reserved seat at Forbes Field....not bad !

Now, unlike the Yuenglings Babe Ruth premiums for free Ice
Cream (back in 1928), Voskamp's Coffee would return your
complete set of 20 cards. So, somewhere out there, near the
Pittsburgh area, there must be some complete sets.

My booth at the Philly Show is nearby John Rumierz booth, and
I will see him in 3 weeks. I will "pick" his mind to see what
insight he has on these cards. I've known John for over 24 yrs.
and I credit him for being about the most knowledgeable when it
comes to "esoteric" issues such as these.

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Posted By: leon

John R is a nice guy.....but if I get him to at least stay facing me (or acknowledging I exist) when I am at his table I consider it a friendly gesture....From my brief encounters with him I too would put him up the list on folks who know a lot about cards....(personally I think I am in the 2nd or 3rd hundred of most knowledgable)..however, I do try to help folks when I can......best regards

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Posted By: Eric

Well, anyone who knows me, knows that this is my favorite issue. Over time I've managed to be lucky enough to pick up three of them. And as I state on my website, finding them is equivelent to finding a needle in a haystack. Only difference is, the needle has an advantage because people aren't bidding against you for them! ; )

I often recall (with some gut-wrenching agony) a regretful Voskamps encounter that I had. About 5-7 years ago, I was at a card show at the Rosemont Horizon (where the 2005 National was). At the time, I was just getting into rarer vintage cards. Mike Wheat was there as usual, with tons of cards. Inside one of his glass cases, I noticed a fanned out assortment of white cards that I'd never seen before. I went through the cards, and liking them alot, asked what they were. Voskamps..1913 team issue..$95 apiece (all of them G-VG). I wanted to buy one, but at the time I didn't have $95 to spend on one baseball card. He had about 15 of them, as I recall..and I didn't buy a single one! We all have those missed opportunities that we regret..this one is one of my biggest. I didn't get my first Voskamps until Leon sold me one back in 2003. The price of Voskamps has stayed pretty level for the past few years, with commons in G condition selling in the $400-450 range.

E.

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Posted By: Eric

Zach~

Just to answer your other question about Voskamp's ads..they do exist. I see them on Ebay from time to time, but they really just advertise the grocery store that issued these cards (B.H. Voskamp's & Sons). I've never seen a Voskamps ad that mentions the card set.

Ryan~ How would you feel about selling that Wagner? Would you take a 1999 Jeep with 103,000 miles in trade? : )

E.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Eric,

If I were to sell the Wagner, I think the best way to describe how I'd feel about it would be "dejected."

-Ryan

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

LEON

I fully appreciate what you are saying. John and I were at
adjacent tables at a show in Valley Forge in 1981 when I first
met him. I can only say do not judge a book by its "Cover, or
even the Introduction pages". You have to read thru it, and it
takes time.
Nevertheless, he is a great resource of knowledge about obscure
cards and sets. His tenure in this hobby is at least 40 yrs.

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Posted By: Lyman

Leon, just want to clarify. Is the image that you posted the back of a Voskamp's card or from an ad booklet? Is this back a variation to the "checklist back" found on most cards? In the cards that you had, were there any other back variations (black back, etc.)? Thanks, Lyman

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Posted By: leon

The front.....and the back...together...not sure if they're cataloged...regards

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Posted By: Lyman

Thanks, Leon.

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Posted By: zach

One more question. I was reading an old thread where Jay said 3 that Voskamps was the home to three different players that Voskamps were the only issue they were ever in....does anyone know who these 3 players are ? Thanks

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Posted By: jay behrens

Zach, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. I still need these 3 cards and I doubt I will be getting them any time soon given rarity and price. I haven't looked at my database in awhile, but I do know that Booe is one of the 3 players.

Jay

If you can sue a band for making you want to commit suicide, can I sue Barry Manilow for turning me into a wuss in the 70s?

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Posted By: zach

One more thing I forgot, does anyone know what the lot of 6 went for in Mastro in June I think ?