Eddie Collins signed document - legit?

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Posted By: Scott Sarian

Hello,

Do you think the signature on the attached Eddie Collins player assignment document is original and hand-signed, or a stamp? My apologies for the poor scan quality (not my item), but just trying to get a sense as to whether Collins hand-signed items like this while GM of Boston, or if it might just be stamped. I saw the item in person and it appeared like an even, light fountain pen signature, but could not determine for sure. Any insights that can be figured out from this (albeit poor) scan?

Thanks,
Scott

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Posted By: Richard S. Simon

The Collins documents are realtively common and I don't recall seeing any with a stamp.
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Posted By: Scott Sarian

Thanks Richard....

Scott

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Realize that it is standard and expected for legal documents to be hand signed by the person. If someone else is signing for a person, this will be duly noted ('Jim Jones signing for Eddie Collins'). Contracts won't be enforcible if signatures are mixed and matched and ghosted. On a finished Player's agreement the player's hand signature will be his, as the player himself has to sign the document for it to be valid.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

But Collins isn't the player, he's signing on behalf of the team.

There are numerous Yankee contracts that have been ghost-signed for Yankee President Jacob Ruppert by Ed Barrow. When Barrow signs "Ruppert," it looks nothing like Ruppert's signature.

Actually, ghost-signed isn't the correct terminology. The contracts were proxy-signed, and I'm sure Barrow was acting legally on behalf of Ruppert, and with his power-of-attorney.

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Posted By: Max Weder

David

I'd be interested in hearing your legal opinion as to why a contract is not enforceable if it is not signed. Basic contract law 101 tells us otherwise. A stamp acknowledging acceptance may well make the contract enforceable

Max

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Posted By: davidcycleback

My language was muddy and could be interpreted two ways. I meant when the signature is a hand signature. On Tom Seaver's million dollar Player's contract, Seaver's handwritten signature is his. Tom put his signature on the contract because he wanted to ensure he got the million dollar, and the Reds made sure it was Tom who signed 'Tom Seaver' because they wanted to ensure they got his services. Likely witnesses from both sides watched Tom sign his name.

My main point was that, for autograph collectors, there's a difference between a player's fan photo signature TTM and on an important legal document. Mickey Mantle might have the ball boy sign Mickey's name on the team baseball, but Mickey would sign a lucrative advertising contract himself. Neither Mickey's lawyer nor the advertising company would allow a 'clubhouse' Mantle signature on that contract. Both sides know it would be hard to enforce a contract with the 'Mickey Mantle' written by a 9 year old ball boy, or even Mickey's legal aged cleaning lady.

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Posted By: Pscolgrafs

There is no worries on this piece as contracts like this (and in the case of Roger Breshnehan (sp?) signatures appear quite of often in this form. Last month, Hunt sold several Collins contracts in their Internet/Phone auction.

Guy above, what gives with all the edits? Two days, you think things over that much that you need to change your words a dozen times or so? Noticed that in another thread as well. Annoying.

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Posted By: leon

As far as David's edits go you might want to relax a little. David thinks through things and makes changes. No harm in that and he has been on the board since it's inception, is a valuable board member and a friend to boot. By the way who are you? Per the forum rules if you want to post like this you need to put your full name and email address next to your post or don't post at all...nothing personal.....regards