Most Deserving Non-HOFer

[ChiSoxCardboard]

(Not sure if this is the right forum, move if desired.)

I picked up this Keith Hernandez card recently and took a quick look at his career. I knew he was pretty good, but didn't know how good. I am shocked he's never received more than 11% of the vote for the Hall of Fame.

I know WAR has its flaws, but is anyone else aware of a player with a career WAR (by Baseball Reference) of over 60 with an MVP who is not in the Hall of Fame? For MVP winners 1975 to the present, I don't believe there are any eligible players not associated with steroids. Clemens, Bonds, and ARod fit the criteria but obviously are associated with steroids. Suzuki, Verlander, Votto, and Pujols fit the criteria but aren't eligible.

I don't have time at the moment to continue the research prior to 1975, but I'd be surprised if there were anyone, which leads to my ultimate question: who is the most deserving player for the HOF that is not in?

Brad

[deweyinthehall]

Here's a few that top my list:

Dwight Evans - no MVP but 67 WAR
Thurman Munson - in 10 effective years, 46 WAR, ROY, MVP, .292 avg.
Dale Murphy - only a 46 WAR, but 2 MVPs, 7x AS, and without the 1981 strike 400+ HR which, at the time he became eligible, would have cinched things right then and there.

[swarmee]

As a child of the 80s, Don Mattingly will always be at the top of my list.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jeff Kent 55.4 and an MVP.
Lou Whitaker no MVP but 75.1 WAR.

[D. Bergin]

As a lifetime Yankee fan and a Little League 2nd Baseman, I'd love to see Willie Randolph get in.

If modern analytics are to be believed, Lou Whitaker should have been put in a long time ago.

Should have probably gone in the same year as his running mate, Trammell.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jeff Kent 55.4 and an MVP.
Lou Whitaker no MVP but 75.1 WAR.

How could I have forgotten Lou! Without a doubt he belongs.

I could also argue for Omar Vizquel - the best lifetime fielding percentage at arguably the most difficult defensive position over a 24 year career HAS to count for something.

[Mike D.]

Two of my favorite cases are Kenny Lofton (68.4 WAR) and Kevin Brown (67.8 WAR). Both were one-and-done on the ballot and deserved much better.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

How could I have forgotten Lou! Without a doubt he belongs.

I could also argue for Omar Vizquel - the best lifetime fielding percentage at arguably the most difficult defensive position over a 24 year career HAS to count for something.

If you believe the skeptics, his range wasn't that great so the number is misleading.

[bnorth]

Probably not a HOFer but Bernie "Baseball" Williams deserved more than 2 years and 9.6% and 3.3% of votes.

[Mike D.]

Vizquel was well on his way to election (52.% of the vote in his 3rd year on the ballot) but his numbers have dropped significantly since some rather trouble allegations against him came up.

[G1911]

1980-Present - probably Curt Schilling if we ignore steroids.

Overall, Ross Barnes and Jim Creighton are probably the to most egregious non-choices.

[ChiSoxCardboard]

Great discussion, and definitely a few names I hadn't thought of. Dwight Evans and Lou Whitaker in particular. I'm embarrassed to admit I had to look up Lou Whitaker. Other than a passing familiarity with the name, I knew almost nothing about him. Absolutely crazy he only received MVP votes once (1983).

[rats60]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxCardboard

I know WAR has its flaws, but is anyone else aware of a player with a career WAR (by Baseball Reference) of over 60 with an MVP who is not in the Hall of Fame? For MVP winners 1975 to the present, I don't believe there are any eligible players not associated with steroids. Clemens, Bonds, and ARod fit the criteria but obviously are associated with steroids. Suzuki, Verlander, Votto, and Pujols fit the criteria but aren't eligible.

1964 NL MVP Ken Boyer has 62.8 WAR.

[todeen]

Bobby Grich, 71 WAR, but no MVP.

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[Elberson]

Bobby Abreu and jimmy rollins…….but a Phillies fan lol

[ChiSoxCardboard]

Originally Posted by rats60

1964 NL MVP Ken Boyer has 62.8 WAR.

A gentleman and a scholar! Great catch!

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxCardboard

A gentleman and a scholar! Great catch!

I believe his has the highest career WAR of any non-HOFer from 1900 to 1970.

[Mike D.]

I really thought Luis Tiant would get more love from the classic era committee.

A Look At The 1965 Topps Luis Tiant Rookie Card

[packs]

Jorge Posada was a great player at a premium position that is typically an out for most teams. He deserved a lot more than the one and done appearance on the ballot that he got. Aside from Pudge and Piazza, two players who have had juicing rumors following them, there wasn't a better offensive catcher in his era.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So close. Darrell Evans 58.7 WAR.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So close. Darrell Evans 58.7 WAR.

Evans and Kingman were probably (from memory) the first guys to break the "400+ HR gets you in rule".

Evans' WAR was close, but for yucks I checked Kingman's and it was just 17+! How does a guy hit nearly 450 HR in 16 seasons and have that WAR?

Also interesting - Evans was drafted by 5 clubs between '65 and '67 - Cubs, Yankees, Tigers, Phillies and A's - anyone know what the record is for most times drafted?

[gonefishin]

I know that all the stat pundits will jump on this but:

Roger Maris should be in the Hall of Fame!

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Evans and Kingman were probably (from memory) the first guys to break the "400+ HR gets you in rule".

Evans' WAR was close, but for yucks I checked Kingman's and it was just 17+! How does a guy hit nearly 450 HR in 16 seasons and have that WAR?

Probably because "Kong" was remarkably bad at nearly every other facet of "Baseball".

Still... he's STILL got triple the lifetime WAR of .300 Hitter, 274 HR's, 1141 RBI guy, Dante Bichette.

[packs]

Adam Dunn hit 462 homers and is credited with only 17.9 WAR.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by packs

Adam Dunn hit 462 homers and is credited with only 17.9 WAR.

I forgot about Dunn - in 14 seasons he hit 462 HRs - that's gotta be HOF worthy on it's own, no?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Adam Dunn hit 462 homers and is credited with only 17.9 WAR.

My favorite Adam Dunn season. 40 HR, 92 RBI, 0.4 WAR lol. And the weird thing about that is what often gets guys on WAR is the lack of walks. Dunn had 100 per year at his peak, and even led the league.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

I know that all the stat pundits will jump on this but:



Roger Maris should be in the Hall of Fame!

I looked up Maris, he lacks longevity and career markers. Does the HOF still have an exhibit for 61 in 1961?

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[Eric72]

Lou Whitaker from among those I've seen (on TV, at least) play.

As for pre-war guys, Bill Dahlen has 75.3 WAR and isn't in the Hall.

[saucywombat]

Jim Edmonds

[deweyinthehall]

Looking at Dahlen's records now - in 19 seasons (can't really count 1910-1911), the guy accumulated 'only' 2400+ hits, 84 HR, 1200+ RBI, a .272 BA and an OPS of 740. Is there someone who can help me understand how that calculates out to a 75.3 WAR?

His fielding % has him ranked at 285th all time for SSs.

What stats might I be missing?