1971 Pirates Sunday Autograph Photo Clemente card question. Help needed with PSA

[tjisonline]

Advice is appreciated on how to proceed w/ PSA as I would prefer to get the correct set year & name on the slab label. If PSA can’t recognize it was part of the 1971 Pirates “Sunday Autograph" Photos set, it will be labeled as “trading card”. It appears PSA needs proof other than the catalog mentioned below.

Background : For the last 3 weeks, PSA has rightfully kept my 1971 Clemente Sunday Autograph Photos card in the “Research & ID” phase. Their team can’t confirm it’s part of this 1971 Pirates team issued set since their system & Clemente registry doesn't include this set yet.



Below info is now considered incorrect.
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According to various editions of the Standard Catalog of Baseball Card (by the late Bob Lemke), Clemente had 2 cards in the ‘71 Action Photos set. Each has the same picture but the key diff is the placement of the text (& omission of jersey # & pos)

Attached is a picture of the catalog plus my card (text in pic) & the other version (text on the bottom border) that PSA recognizes in their system.

Note: the 365 days of Roberto Clemente thread has been helpful in my research.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=249493

Actual summary from the catalog = “1971 Pittsburgh Pirates Action Photos

A successor to the team-issued autograph cards of 1968-70, this set of souvenir photos was produced in a 4" x 5-1/2" black-and-white format on semi-gloss paper. The player's name, position, and uniform number were printed on front. Backs are blank. Some cards have the player's name printed in the white bottom border, some have it within the photo. The set was issued in two series. The checklist is presented here alphabetically within series.”

[71buc]

What you have is a Sunday Autograph photo card. These were given to fans at Three Rivers on Sundays to obtain the autographs of players scheduled to sign that date. Action cards are larger and the paper stock is similar to that of magazine pages. Sunday are card stock similar to greeting cards. I have all but 6 Action cards. They are tough to find especially in top condition due to the paper stock. The cropping on the Clemente is different on Sunday Cards as well. Here are a few examples a checklist, and uncut sheet examples of both sets. PSA doesn’t have them all listed. Hope this helps.

[71buc]

Here’s Roberto signing at a Three Rivers Sunday Signing

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Here’s Roberto signing at a Three Rivers Sunday Signing

Great picture!!

Are any of the kids in the picture you?

Mike

[71buc]

Unfortunately I am not in that picture.

[tjisonline]

This is extremely helpful. You mentioned the same to me in the 365 thread. Thank you so much. I updated the original post above and will contact PSA tomorrow.

I guess the next question is, How does someone go about getting PSA to recognize this?

Originally Posted by 71buc

What you have is a Sunday Autograph photo card. These were given to fans at Three Rivers on Sundays to obtain the autographs of players scheduled to sign that date. Action cards are larger and the paper stock is similar to that of magazine pages. Sunday are card stock similar to greeting cards. I have all but 6 Action cards. They are tough to find especially in top condition due to the paper stock. The cropping on the Clemente is different on Sunday Cards as well. Here are a few examples a checklist, and uncut sheet examples of both sets. PSA doesn’t have them all listed. Hope this helps.

[Sleepless72]

Originally Posted by 71buc

What you have is a Sunday Autograph photo card. These were given to fans at Three Rivers on Sundays to obtain the autographs of players scheduled to sign that date. Action cards are larger and the paper stock is similar to that of magazine pages. Sunday are card stock similar to greeting cards. I have all but 6 Action cards. They are tough to find especially in top condition due to the paper stock. The cropping on the Clemente is different on Sunday Cards as well. Here are a few examples a checklist, and uncut sheet examples of both sets. PSA doesn’t have them all listed. Hope this helps.

So, here's my question: If what you're showing are Sunday Autograph cards, what are these? (Hopefully, you can see my photo.) Are these also Sunday Autograph cards? I assumed they were. Now having seen your uncut sheet, I'm guessing one of the Sanguillens is from the same set as the Blass I'm showing.

Note that in that set, I've encountered at least four different paper types: a glossy paper, a matte/satin paper, a leathery card stock, and a linen card stock. No idea which came first.

You'll also note that there are three different designs for the Sanguillen between yours and mine, all using the same photo. And the Kison card uses a slightly different typeface. I have a Rennie Stennett like that as well.

So, do you know which design came out when? All I've been able to determine is that the range appears to be 1971-73. After that, I only have questions.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...zHvLOiYKrlm2W5

Chris

[71buc]

Hi Chris, I’m unable to view the photos without you granting me access. I sent you a request.

[Sleepless72]

Oops, sorry about that. I think I cleared you. How do you guys usually go about sharing images on this forum?

[71buc]

Sorry for the late response. The 4X5 photos you shared are a bit of a mystery. Nonetheless I’ll share my thoughts and opinions based on my experiences collecting them.

I believe that the 4X5 portraits that have the text aligned to the far left are a 1971 issue. I believe this to be true as I have all of the team issued 8x10 player publicity photos using these same images. Although they are undated I do have a few that have editorial markings on the back indicating they were used in the production of the 1971 Orioles World Series program. Also September call ups Richie Zisk and Lorenzo Lanier appear in the 8X10 size. The Zisk photo features him wearing #10. He only wore this number for the 6 games between 9/8/71 and 9/23/71. He changed to #22 when Frank Tavares joined the team on 9/25/71. Lorenzo Lanier only appeared in four September games before returning to the minor leagues. Those were his only 4 games in his MLB career. Neither Zisk or Lanier appear in the 4X5 versions of these photos. It would make sense that neither player would have been featured on a Sunday autograph cards due to their late season call ups.

The following year Zisk does appear wearing #22 with a 4X5 photo that has the text centered in the lower margin. A number of the portraits used in the 1971 8X10s also appear once again in the 1972 4X5 photos with the centered text. The Joe Morgan with the centered text you shared also supports my 1972 theory as he was only a Bucs coach in 1972. He returned to the minors in 1973 when Mazeroski retired and was named the infield coach in 1973.

The 1971 4X5s do appear in a variety of paper stocks. The 1971 color autograph cards can also be found in printed on a variety of paper stocks. I attribute this to a belief that they were produced multiple times throughout the season as the need arose.

The 1971 Action cards on the slick magazine paper are undoubtedly a 1971 product. Their 4X5 counterparts on card stock I suspect were also issued as Sunday Autograph cards. The paper stocks of the 1971 Action photos wouldn’t be a good medium for autographs. I don’t have much to support that assumption other than my experience in collecting them. I have encountered many more signed copies of those than unsigned copies. They are also more difficult to find than the 1971 4x5 portraits.

I hope this helps.