This is Vent Thread - Lets define "Pumper" relating to this section of this website

[Rhotchkiss]

Can someone please define this term for me and explain how it applies to comments made on the prewar section of Net54?

I understand the term in the context of a guy getting on social media and talking up a card or player to tens of thousands of people so that prices rise and the guy/pumper can acquire and then sell their cards for much more than they paid.

But how does that apply here, where most of what we buy/collect is quite rare and doesn’t sell too often, where prices on these items do not and cannot move at nearly the same speed as more common cards/players, where the viewership on this website is relatively small, and when most of us are not buying cards to sell/flip in the near future?

Perhaps I am taking this personally, but I feel the term (especially as used quite often by one poster in particular) is aimed at anyone who views cards as viable investments, having a true asset value, rather than just cardboard to be collected. Or more properly, its aimed at anyone who openly talks about changes in the "marketplace" and the rising and falling values of cards; god forbid they make an encouraging comment about the future value of a card. Doing that is no different from anyone who sits around with friends and discusses the impact of the economy, or interest rates, or geopolitical issues on the values of their real estate or stock portfolio.

So, because I get annoyed each and every time I see the word "pumper" regularly used in posts on the prewar section of net54, can I get some feedback on how that can apply here and to what type of posts/posters that term is directed?

And BTW -- if I am considered a pumper because I actively invest in cards and I talk about that openly here, then I am proud to be a pumper, although I believe totally mislabeled as one.

Also BTW -- THIS HAS BEEN EDITED - Perhaps I am trying to pick a fight, specifically with G1911, who uses the word pumper more than anyone around here. Nevertheless, I am still genuinely interested to understand the profile of a "pumper" on the prewar section of Net54, because that term gets a lot of run and I think it should be publicly defined so everyone knows whats intended when its used.

[ullmandds]

I interpret the use of the term..."pumper" as someone who often touts the virtues of cards they own...as being super rare, desirable, or way undervalued...to try to persuade others of such virtues so as they may want to own such cards...thereby increasing the perceived value of said cards/items.

for example...show your favorite hank aaron card. poster posts spic and span aaron touting how rare it is as compared to the topps and thereby should be much more desirable and valuable.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I interpret the use of the term..."pumper" as someone who often touts the virtues of cards they own...as being super rare, desirable, or way undervalued...to try to persuade others of such virtues so as they may want to own such cards...thereby increasing the perceived value of said cards/items.

for example...show your favorite hank aaron card. poster posts spic and span aaron touting how rare it is as compared to the topps and thereby should be much more desirable and valuable.

I concur. If you're talking about what aspects of a card you find aesthetically pleasing or what niche of your collection it fits into or when/how you acquired it, that's just discussing why you like the card. If you're talking about why other people should like it more than they do, that's pumping.

[ClementeFanOh]

Ryan- I too have seen the term "pumper" tossed around in various threads.
It got to the point that, for me within net54 anyway, there was the threat of
it becoming like the word "nice" in everyday language- almost meaningless.

My recollections of the term reveal that two sorts of folks use it on very
opposite ends of the spectrum. The first is the guy like 1911, who uses the
term about people who have more cash than him to spend on cards. Plenty
of folks on these boards have more disposable income than I do, but I've
yet to have the inclination to spew my envy by calling them "pumpers". 1911
loves to take it to extremes too, insinuating (if not bluntly stating) that
people with cash are one step away from forfeiting their bank accounts and
their futures because of cards. He gives no one credit for hobby knowledge
or financial prudence, instead lumping them into a category called
"pumpers". You're right, 1911 is a special kind of dolt. If the truth was a
snake he'd get bitten almost every time, and there is no reasoning with him.

The second sort who "pump" are the guys who like to flaunt their investment
"knowledge" by insisting repeatedly that collectors should focus only on
highly specific players. "Buy Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, and Robinson in high
grade". These folks think this comment is some sort of revelation, which it
isn't. They also think other collectors should mindlessly follow their advice
because- drum roll, please- it's their advice! Lots of people on these boards
have great knowledge and it's a pleasure to gain it. "Pumpers" feel like they
need to flaunt the advice and, I suspect, are really just hoping they are
right in the end because that's the path they chose.

Just my observations, nothing more or less.

Trent King

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I interpret the use of the term..."pumper" as someone who often touts the virtues of cards they own...as being super rare, desirable, or way undervalued...to try to persuade others of such virtues so as they may want to own such cards...thereby increasing the perceived value of said cards/items.

for example...show your favorite hank aaron card. poster posts spic and span aaron touting how rare it is as compared to the topps and thereby should be much more desirable and valuable.

This is an interesting definition too, but, personally, one I think is too broad. What is the difference between pumping and showing off? Or, what if a card is posted in response to a question like “what is the next big card to take off?”. If someone posts a card they own and state why they think that could be the next card to take off, are they pumping?

Personally, I like Don’s definition and feel a “pumper” is stating their “opinion”, specifically and purposefully (and these two adverbs are key), that is, with the intent to (1) motivate others to buy the card, so (2) the value/price of that card goes up, and so (3) the pumper can sell or dump his card for a profit.

I think there are very few people on this site who intentionally seek to motivate others to buy their cards so they can dump them for more.

[Yoda]

And I always thought that a pumper was that guy at the water station furiously working a lever to extract a bit of H2O.

[RCFire82]

My line of work, a pumper is a fire engine.

[Kidnapped18]

Not sure I have seen the term pumper on any threads not that I am looking so this is new to me. I don’t care if everyone here collects cards for fun, for investing, a combination of the two or for any other reasons. I assume that most here collect for fun with the hope that their card values rise and if it rises to a point the owner wants to sell then they do so.
If you are a member here buying or selling cards then you should have some general idea of the card value based on grades past sales and the direction the market is going and price you want to pay and proceed accordingly. Most members here have access to all sorts of data VCP, cardtarget, PSA, auction houses past sales to make sure they don’t way overpay. I would tend to think a pumper wouldn’t influence my decision to purchase any card here or elsewhere.

[Casey2296]

I don't recall ever seeing a Pumper here or in the postwar section for that matter, maybe Kevin Mize but he still wasn't a classic pumper, more like aggressive sales tatics.

When I think of pumpers I think of guys like Goldin/West in the old days or the new guys on social media, or Michael Rubin selling NFT's.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by casey2296

maybe kevin mize but he still wasn't a classic pumper, more like aggressive sales tactics.

bump

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by atx840

bump

Thanks for the many inquiries, still available...

[Exhibitman]

Don't know about Parker Pumper but I definitely had a bit of a crush on Parker Posey

[ALR-bishop]

But did she not get lost in space ?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Can someone please define this term for me and explain how it applies to comments made on the prewar section of Net54?

I understand the term in the context of a guy getting on social media and talking up a card or player to tens of thousands of people so that prices rise and the guy/pumper can acquire and then sell their cards for much more than they paid.

But how does that apply here, where most of what we buy/collect is quite rare and doesn’t sell too often, where prices on these items do not and cannot move at nearly the same speed as more common cards/players, where the viewership on this website is relatively small, and when most of us are not buying cards to sell/flip in the near future?

Perhaps I am taking this personally, but I feel the term (especially as used quite often by one poster in particular) is aimed at anyone who views cards as viable investments, having a true asset value, rather than just cardboard to be collected. Or more properly, its aimed at anyone who openly talks about changes in the "marketplace" and the rising and falling values of cards; god forbid they make an encouraging comment about the future value of a card. Doing that is no different from anyone who sits around with friends and discusses the impact of the economy, or interest rates, or geopolitical issues on the values of their real estate or stock portfolio.

So, because I get annoyed each and every time I see the word "pumper" regularly used in posts on the prewar section of net54, can I get some feedback on how that can apply here and to what type of posts/posters that term is directed?

And BTW -- if I am considered a pumper because I actively invest in cards and I talk about that openly here, then I am proud to be a pumper, although I believe totally mislabeled as one.

Also BTW -- I am not trying to pick a fight, but rather, I am genuinely interested to understand the profile of a "pumper" on the prewar section of Net54, because that term gets a lot of run and I think it should be publicly defined so everyone knows whats intended when its used.

My definition is like you described but it doesn't have to be to a huge audience. I have seen people pump cards on this forum countless times in the 10 years I have been a member. You can pump a card to a small audience and get someone silly enough to highly overpay.

Usually it is fairly easy to do especially if you have a "friend/relative" help pump the card(s). It is WHY cards get hot.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Can someone please define this term for me and explain how it applies to comments made on the prewar section of Net54?

I understand the term in the context of a guy getting on social media and talking up a card or player to tens of thousands of people so that prices rise and the guy/pumper can acquire and then sell their cards for much more than they paid.

But how does that apply here, where most of what we buy/collect is quite rare and doesn’t sell too often, where prices on these items do not and cannot move at nearly the same speed as more common cards/players, where the viewership on this website is relatively small, and when most of us are not buying cards to sell/flip in the near future?

Perhaps I am taking this personally, but I feel the term (especially as used quite often by one poster in particular) is aimed at anyone who views cards as viable investments, having a true asset value, rather than just cardboard to be collected. Or more properly, its aimed at anyone who openly talks about changes in the "marketplace" and the rising and falling values of cards; god forbid they make an encouraging comment about the future value of a card. Doing that is no different from anyone who sits around with friends and discusses the impact of the economy, or interest rates, or geopolitical issues on the values of their real estate or stock portfolio.

So, because I get annoyed each and every time I see the word "pumper" regularly used in posts on the prewar section of net54, can I get some feedback on how that can apply here and to what type of posts/posters that term is directed?

And BTW -- if I am considered a pumper because I actively invest in cards and I talk about that openly here, then I am proud to be a pumper, although I believe totally mislabeled as one.

Also BTW -- I am not trying to pick a fight, but rather, I am genuinely interested to understand the profile of a "pumper" on the prewar section of Net54, because that term gets a lot of run and I think it should be publicly defined so everyone knows whats intended when its used.

I'm not 100% sure who the "one poster in particular" is that has drawn ire for using the term, as several of us just, including me, used it or cosigned a post using it in the recent thread. The word means the same as it does and always has in any other environment; I have not seen anyone ever use a special definition for Net54.

A pumper is a person who attempts to pump the market of certain items. Pumping the market is generally done by communicating and promoting actions in a way designed to create an inflated run on certain items or a segment of items that is to the fiscal benefit of the pumper. It usually but not necessarily implies some dishonesty, which is where the problem starts.

The desire to reduce or increase a market is not inherently wrong. Nor is taking reasonable actions to achieve objectives to ones benefit. It enters the area of wrong if those actions, whether to inflate (i.e. good for investors) or reduce (i.e. good for collectors) are done dishonestly or are not reasonably responsible. For example, people holding high end vintage and encouraging other people to sell off their 401K's, take the massive withdrawal fees, and put their retirement savings all into the same cards they want to go up for their own benefit. Or the followup thread where some then encouraged people to also take out loans from the bank if they didn't have cash to buy high end vintage cards, while the market was already skyrocketing beyond what one can reasonably expect to be supportable in the long run. Or the SGC 9.5 Mantle thread where one poster, bragging about the extreme high price they had just paid for a low grade Mantle, got very upset at actual facts being posted publicly, like the large stain not he card and the fact that it is not actually a rookie card. There are three thread examples wherein such behavior occurred.

A non-problematic example of the same root sentiment is often found in modern - where investors in a player or prospect talk up that player and his cards potential gains in a Discord, but do so while acknowledging it is high risk and it may not pan out, but they believe that it will and have bought in themselves and think others should consider also spending some of their side money. It is honest, as long as they actually do believe the card will keep increasing and the player is a genuine prospect, and transparent with disclosure without encouraging people to do grossly irresponsible things like go into debt and sell out their retirement to buy the kinds of cards the person encouraging it has and wants to go up. This is pretty much what happened with Trout, Acuna bat downs, etc. among plenty of others that did not work out.

The reverse would be equally wrong. As a collector not investor, it is in my interest to protect the values of certain cards in the opposite direction - to discourage buying and reduce market prices. If I posted that the cards on my want list are really common and not as rare as they seem at first, or I mixed into my research claims or misleading information or falsified documents to suggest false or misleading things about the cards to discourage others from seeking them, that would be equally wrong.

[Peter_Spaeth]

To me, it's disingenuously touting the attributes of a player or issue in a purportedly neutral fashion, when the undisclosed intent is to pump up the price in order to sell what you own. Similar to a pump and dump stock scheme.

Not the same, as Phil points out, as aggressively marketing a card where everyone knows to take what you're saying with a grain of salt.

[brianp-beme]

Goldin/West are probably the pumper prototypes. Then again, I did get one of these tags engraved for personal reasons.
parkerpumper.jpg
brianp(umper)-beme (these engraved tags are fairly uncommon, and if you ever come across one, I suggest snagging it at any price. By the way, I did come across a few awhile back. I am considering possibly selling one down the road some time, but being as rare as it is, it would probably be at an elevated cost. And rightfully so. But I still haven't made up my mind about selling. Please pm if you have any interest).

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Can someone please define this term for me and explain how it applies to comments made on the prewar section of Net54?

I understand the term in the context of a guy getting on social media and talking up a card or player to tens of thousands of people so that prices rise and the guy/pumper can acquire and then sell their cards for much more than they paid.

But how does that apply here, where most of what we buy/collect is quite rare and doesn’t sell too often, where prices on these items do not and cannot move at nearly the same speed as more common cards/players, where the viewership on this website is relatively small, and when most of us are not buying cards to sell/flip in the near future?

Perhaps I am taking this personally, but I feel the term (especially as used quite often by one poster in particular) is aimed at anyone who views cards as viable investments, having a true asset value, rather than just cardboard to be collected. Or more properly, its aimed at anyone who openly talks about changes in the "marketplace" and the rising and falling values of cards; god forbid they make an encouraging comment about the future value of a card. Doing that is no different from anyone who sits around with friends and discusses the impact of the economy, or interest rates, or geopolitical issues on the values of their real estate or stock portfolio.

So, because I get annoyed each and every time I see the word "pumper" regularly used in posts on the prewar section of net54, can I get some feedback on how that can apply here and to what type of posts/posters that term is directed?

And BTW -- if I am considered a pumper because I actively invest in cards and I talk about that openly here, then I am proud to be a pumper, although I believe totally mislabeled as one.

Also BTW -- I am not trying to pick a fight, but rather, I am genuinely interested to understand the profile of a "pumper" on the prewar section of Net54, because that term gets a lot of run and I think it should be publicly defined so everyone knows whats intended when its used.

Regularly used? "Gets a lot of run"?
What am I missing? I used the search function and found that the term has been used in 10 threads over the past 12+ years, counting this one. I've never given it a second thought. I suppose we can sit here and give interpretations of the term using basic logic and common sense, but I find it to be a non-issue here. It almost seems to me like you're trying to create one.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Regularly used? "Gets a lot of run"?
What am I missing? I used the search function and found that the term has been used in 10 threads over the past 12+ years, counting this one. I've never given it a second thought. I suppose we can sit here and give interpretations of the term using basic logic and common sense, but I find it to be a non-issue here. It almost seems to me like you're trying to create one.

Add an “s” to the end of your search query and you will find 25 threads from now to July 2019 (first appearance of the term in this board), with 19 of the threads being from 2022 or newer.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Add an “s” to the end of your search query and you will find 25 threads from now to July 2019 (first appearance of the term in this board), with 19 of the threads being from 2022 or newer. But I appreciate the dig.

Well, I guess we have different ideas of what is meant by regularly used and getting a lot of run. Nonetheless, since it seems to concern you, I hope you find your answer and I acknowledge that it must indeed be a real thing to some folk.

EDITED to add : Sorry if I came across as snarky. I just do not recall EVER seeing the term on net54 until you started this thread.

[todeen]

I don't think a pumper needs to be on social media at all. He just needs an audience. Think of snake oil salesmen in the 1800s. Town to town he could attract small crowds and if he got 1 sale out of 5 that would need to be considered successful. They spend 5 days in town before the buyers are depleted, and then they move on. But before they move on, they use FOMO as a tool to sell more on their final. "Buy it now before I leave town."

Net54 is just one stop in a pumpers circuit of stops. It doesn't matter that we trade in rare cards. We are an audience. The best threads I can think of on our site that would enable pumper are HOF RC threads, who is the next HOF to jump in popularity, what are best long term investments. All of those threads create FOMO with every response. Buy Babe Ruth now before he becomes more expensive.

You wonder who the pumpers are. We are our own worst enemy.

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[Snowman]

It is of course a nonsensical term as applied around here. And it is almost universally applied illegitimately in this hobby outside of these forums as well. Anyone who says anything positive about any card they own is fair game to the pump shamers. There is nothing wrong with speaking enthusiastically about your collection. You bought your cards for a reason. Share them with pride and don't think twice about offering your middle finger to the "pump" shamers and their twelve dollar collections.

[ALBB]

then there's the ever popular - Pump and Dump

[theshowandme]

I asked ChatGPT on the proper definition

[Leon]

I have never thought of this place as a place for pumpers, except on the BST. Just because I like to show my cards, it doesn't mean I am pumping. Who needs to advertise how rare something is when most of us already know?

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ALBB

then there's the ever popular - Pump and Dump

Admittedly, I have seen many times over the years where a thread was started on a rare issue on the main page, just out of the blue to showcase a particular issue without any stated intent. Then amazingly, some examples of this issue quickly appear in a large auction or eBay within the next week or two.

I don't mind if the intent is clear, but I cannot remember that being the case much. This is not unlike watching Kramer or many stock investment shows who hype their own holdings for a temporary boost.

In addition, it has been clearly disclosed once or twice but mostly hidden of certain individuals bidding up and buying rare issues they hold if they see them selling low to maintain their value in current VCP sales. Then the same card comes back to market later for the recoup in hopes they get the value they believe it should sell for.

Are any of these illegal within the collectables market? Not that I personally know of, but I think it's a tad questionable personally.

[BobbyStrawberry]

I am happy to say that I think most Net54 members are not pumpers; however, as Ben N. wrote above, I have also noticed things on here that sure seem to me to look like "pumping." Among them are:

1) Making a "show off" post only to have that item appear for sale in the BST shortly thereafter

2) Consistently posting about how one or more cards one owns are only going to go up in value and that anyone who doesn't grab one at an inflated price is "missing out"

[raulus]

I agree with the snake oil salesman definition. Some Johnny-come-lately (sorry, Johnny) breezes into town with a slick pitch and something of dubious quality to sell for an obscenely high price, then leaves as quickly as he came once his pitch has grown old and the buyers catch on to his schtick.

Ryan - I wouldn't sweat it. Anyone who thinks you are a pumper needs to go home and rethink his life.

At the same time, I find myself often agreeing with Greg when it comes to some of the more ludicrous approaches to aggressively managing finances as a means of buying more cardboard, although I may not be quite so aggressive about saying it. Don't hate me for it!

I suspect that part of the problem may just be the aggressive use of sarcasm and snark. It's my primary medium personally, and Greg uses it liberally. Yet it doesn't always translate well in written form, particularly in an online context. Personally, I'm generally inclined to give Greg the benefit of the doubt and assume noble intentions, while his welcome has probably worn thin with others. I've snapped once or twice myself and typed up a rant on this forum, so it's certainly only natural for all of us to get our dander up over some perceived slight.

I think another part of the problem is that every group, especially those that primarily exist online, develops its own code. And that code leads to a lot of virtue signaling, the need to delineate various degrees of virtue, and labeling those who are insufficiently virtuous so that they can be the objects of appropriate levels of scorn and ridicule by the rest of the group as a means of enforcing that code. The whole investor/collector dynamic comes into play with our group, among other labels. My experience is that whole process at best is quaint, and at worst gets really tiresome in a hurry. Particularly because very few of us have motives that are as pure as the driven snow.

So the bottom line for me is to let it go. It's just not worth getting that excited about.

These aren't the pumpers you're looking for!

[Bcwcardz]

The only pumpers I’ve seen around here. Jokes aside, we all make our own decisions to purchase. I’ve never took advice of a random individuals musing to influence my decisions. It really doesn’t bother me to see why people think this card will go up or this card will go down. It’s all opinion like everything else. Everyone’s got one.


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