Mantle vs. Clemente

[bcbgcbrcb]

Can someone tell me how this Clemente card gets an SGC 2 and the Mantle card which I sent in to SGC a few months ago for crossover didn't make my minimum grade of a straight SGC 1? No back damage on either one. Centering on the back of the Mantle is much better than the front. Centering on the back of the Clemente is the same as the front.

[raulus]

Definitely one of life's great mysteries.

However, one thing I did notice is that the Clemente is only miscut top-bottom. Left-right, it's still OC, but not so extreme as to be miscut.

Mantle appears to be miscut both top-bottom and left-right.

At the same time, I don't see why it shouldn't get a SGC 1. Then again, I've never submitted to SGC, so know nothing about their approach.

Could just be one of those charming idiosyncrasies that endears the TPGs that much more to all of us as the collecting public.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by raulus

Definitely one of life's great mysteries.

However, one thing I did notice is that the Clemente is only miscut top-bottom. Left-right, it's still OC, but not so extreme as to be miscut.

Mantle appears to be miscut both top-bottom and left-right.

At the same time, I don't see why it shouldn't get a SGC 1. Then again, I've never submitted to SGC, so know nothing about their approach.

Could just be one of those charming idiosyncrasies that endears the TPGs that much more to all of us as the collecting public.

Yeah, you can only see two of the Mantle's borders, and you can see 3 of Clemente's.

Clemente's corners are much sharper too.

[Exhibitman]

Trying to figure out this sort of stuff is like trying to reason with a barnyard animal.

[oldjudge]

Both horribly centered but the Clemente has better corners

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Both horribly centered but the Clemente has better corners

+1

[bcbgcbrcb]

Here are additional pics of the Mantle card, including the back:

[swarmee]

Yeah, with those very long spider wrinkles across the back, I think it's reasonable for the grade it received from PSA. Due to the heavy print on the front, those creases were mostly obscured.

[butchie_t]

Best I can say to you is this is and will always be one of life's mysteries for ever and ever.

Best of luck and nice cards.

Butch Turner

[JeremyW]

Phil- If it were me, I'd be happy with the PSA holder.

[bcbgcbrcb]

I have yet to see a valid point that has swayed my thinking even by 1% that both PSA and SGC are wrong in their assessment of the Mantle. I guess I’ll just have to agree to disagree with them along with all on Net54 who responded. I thought that most would see my point of view here but was wrong.

[swarmee]

Did you measure the card, as I asked earlier? It's possible PSA graded it while undersize, but SGC is not willing to give it a number grade if it's factory cut short.

[The Detroit Collector]

It could be the measurement of the card; the Clemente has a little more border left to right where the Mantle has no border on the right. The little border for the Clemente could put the card in the needed minimum measurement to get a grade, where the Mantle does not meet the minimum requirement do to zero border on the right.

[bcbgcbrcb]

John:

You were 100% correct. I finally had a chance to take a closer look at the back of the actual card. A number of horizontal surface wrinkles, certainly enough to cause a 1.5 grade aside from the miscut. None of these are visible from the front of the card. I stand corrected, PSA got the grade right. SGC, not so much, these certainly do not eliminate an SGC 1 from being given, still no way that I agree with their assessment.