Newbie Advice: Grading expectations...

[oldschool73]

Hi,
After a 30year absence from the hobby, I am back...and my have things changed. I've decided to stick to Vintage Topps as there are too many mid boggling choices for new cards (one reason I left the hobby in 1990)...

Grading: What's the real skinny? I bought 6 HOFers from the 50s from a well respected dealer via multiple auctions on ebay-had them graded by SGC-and all came back .5-2 grades lower than the dealer had "raw" graded them. Fortunately, when I pointed this out-I was refunded (minus grading fees) for which I am grateful. However, what expectations should I have? My current data/experience suggest over grading to be common. Admittedly, a .5 variance seems reasonable (even though the pricing really takes a hit)...but a 1-2 grade variance?
No doubt this has been discussed ad nauseum..but , before I leave the hobby again, can the gurus on this forum please advise?
Thanks,
OS73

[swarmee]

Over the past 5 years, both main grading companies have gotten stricter on vintage grading. PSA for edge and corner issues is even stricter, making colored bordered cards like 1971 and 1975 Topps even more difficult to score high grades on. SGC used to forgive centering, but has really tightened up on it recently.
But truthfully, PSA is always a 1-2 grade crapshoot. If you are expecting accuracy from PSA, you're doing it wrong.

Plus, if you've been out of the hobby 30 years, you should really read the PSA/SGC trimming scandal threads here and on blowout. Start with this one:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1298835
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1289859
You could be still reading months from now, based on how many fraudsters there are and how incompetent the grading services are. And for some real fun, the T206 Auto scandal thread is also a good one to show their incompetence.

[nwobhm]

If you want graded cards…..buy them already graded.

[Kutcher55]

I have done ok lately buying raw cards and having them graded by SGC. But nothing that expensive or high end and mostly for my PC. There’s a nice feeling when you get a good deal on a raw card and it grades to expectation/hope.

You just need to thoroughly inspect the card, look for tiny wrinkles, surface scratches and bubbles. Both PSA and SGC can crush a card for these little blips. Safest to purchase graded cards as that other guy said but make sure you study those cards as well since there can be a big quality difference even within the same grade. And yeah it’s true buying a graded card is not a guarantee of anything.

Welcome back, glad to have you. And yes, use a lot of caution, be patient. If it’s too good to be true it almost always is. Like the first responder said, the hobby is full of scuzzballs although there are fewer per capita in vintage as compared to modern. When you buy a card on line you are depending upon a photo and the integrity of the seller and it’s never quite as good as seeing the card in person. That said, there are a lot of honorable people in the hobby, especially in vintage.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldschool73

Hi,
After a 30year absence from the hobby, I am back...and my have things changed. I've decided to stick to Vintage Topps as there are too many mid boggling choices for new cards (one reason I left the hobby in 1990)...

Grading: What's the real skinny? I bought 6 HOFers from the 50s from a well respected dealer via multiple auctions on ebay-had them graded by SGC-and all came back .5-2 grades lower than the dealer had "raw" graded them. Fortunately, when I pointed this out-I was refunded (minus grading fees) for which I am grateful. However, what expectations should I have? My current data/experience suggest over grading to be common. Admittedly, a .5 variance seems reasonable (even though the pricing really takes a hit)...but a 1-2 grade variance?
No doubt this has been discussed ad nauseum..but , before I leave the hobby again, can the gurus on this forum please advise?
Thanks,
OS73

Here is a card of mine SGC graded 4 grades too low, or even 5. PSA, at least, graded it a 6, although I don't get that either. Both me and a friend who also saw it, a guy who knows cards extremely well, called the card Mint and at absolute worst NM MT.

With so many kiddie graders whose standard is a perfect ultra modern card, it seems like a very high risk proposition now to submit anything vintage or even pre ultra modern. My whole SGC sub went like this. Total waste of money.

[53toppscollector]

If you get into grading and submit multiple orders, you will realize that there is no real uniformity in grading, at least at the main graders. PSA and SGC are using AI in some ways (though they are vague about how they are doing it), but they still have humans grading the cards, and when humans grade cards, you will get subjective grades back. What looks like a 5 to one person might be a 6 to another grader.

Generally speaking, if you are buying raw cards and the seller has "graded" them, you need to take their grade with a grain of salt. There are a few that do a really nice job grading raw vintage, but their grade is just an estimation and your actual grade from the TPG could have a 3 grade swing to it.

You also need to invest in a few tools if you really want to have an idea where your cards stand before you get them graded, such as a small jeweler's loupe and a good lamp. You have to closely examine the surface of cards, because even the faintest surface wrinkle that can't be seen without magnification/supplemental light will torpedo your card's grade, even if the rest of the card is super clean.

If I see a card listed raw as "EX" and its not from one of the handful of raw vintage dealers I trust, I always dock the card at least one grade down when thinking about how much I want to pay for it. If you are buying in person, you can inspect the cards and tilt them in the light before you buy. If you buy online, generally speaking, you should probably never buy a raw card unless you see a good, high quality scan of both the front and the back of the card, and again, even that will only tell you so much.

Best of luck.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

If you want graded cards…..buy them already graded.

This would be my advice as well.

For me, the only exception to this rule is if they're impossible to find already graded. Usually when I submit those cards for grading, I'm happy with whatever I get.

In general, I haven't experienced quite the same issue with grades being 1-2 slots too low. But most of what I've submitted recently is pretty banged up, so it's not really a good indicator.

[oldschool73]

Thanks for the input!