Sotherby's Lou Gehrig Day - 1999 - Barry Halper

[Snapolit1]

Unfortunately this event was long before my collecting days started. Sounds prety amazing. Lou's last glove - $50,000 estimate!! And a cool card too.

Does anyone have memories of this sale? 2,500 lots to be sold in person; 6,500 lots to be sold on the internet.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/285165559422

[rjackson44]

yeah a lot of folks bought fake stuff

[Snapolit1]

Wow! I wasn't expecting things to go in that direction . . . .

[rjackson44]

Here ya go

[Fred]

Steve,

Look in fleabay and search "Halper". You can find the catalogs for sale. It's much more fun to look at hard copies than to pick through web pages. The catalogs are pretty nice.

Ok, in a collection this size, there's bound to be stuff that may not be what we want (complete authentic with provenance) but a majority of the stuff in the catalog was legit.

It was really amazing to see one person with SO MUCH STUFF! I'm guessing if the auction were 20 years later, the prices realized would be much more.

[G1911]

A lot of it was fake. Including items he said he personally acquired. Some of the items that weren’t provably fake turned out to be stolen from the libraries and archives. From jerseys to autographs to hair to ball player firearms to knickerbocker baseballs, a whole lot of his collection has turned out to be phony or not what it was purported to be. He even lied about playing for Jimmie Foxx in the 50’s. Between the fakes, the stolen items and Halper’s frequent falsehoods, it’s hard to take items from his collection as a positive provenance.

[BobC]

IIRC, weren't there also supposedly stolen items included in the collection that were eventually sold as well, with some of those stolen items thought to come from another well-known hobby name who was caught stealing items from the NY Public Library at one time?

Leopards don't typically ever change their spots. I've often wondered why people still look up to some of these earlier hobby names that were eventually shown/proven to be not so ethical.

[BobC]

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[Snapolit1]

Thanks. I guess I've heard his name a few times and now that I think of it there was some scandal or 2 or 3 attached to it.

I was hoping to start a thread about positive memories of a great auction. Sure doesn't look like it's going in that direction. For those who have been around for over 20 years, sure this subject has been covered extensively if not ad naseum.

[packs]

Is there any truth to the rumor that Halper would invite someone over to his house, leave some "valuable" baseball cards out, excuse himself and watch from another room to see if the person stole his stuff?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Thanks. I guess I've heard his name a few times and now that I think of it there was some scandal or 2 or 3 attached to it.

I was hoping to start a thread about positive memories of a great auction. Sure doesn't look like it's going in that direction. For those who have been around for over 20 years, sure this subject has been covered extensively if not ad naseum.

Steve,

There were many great and fantastic items in that auction, and in Halper's overall collection. It later came out there were also many fraudulent and supposedly stolen items in the collection as well. Personally, I don't know enough about which items were or were not tainted that may have been included in the particular auction you're talking about. So, speaking just for myself, I'd hate to comment on any particular item and laud it and its history, only to find out another member with more knowledge and a better memory corrects me by chiming in about how this or that particular item ended up being fraudulent or proven to have been stolen. It is obvious that Halper had a fantastic eye and great knowledge when it came to these items and memorabilia in his fantastic collection. But then it also begs the question, was Halper possibly that ignorant that he was totally unaware of all the supposedly fake/fraudulent and stolen items he had, or was he just being quiet? I never personally knew, nor ever even met, Barry Halper, but from what I've heard and read about him from others, he sure didn't seem to be or ever come across as someone that was in any way ignorant when it came to this hobby, and especially in regard to the items in his collection.

Not necessarily a bad idea for a thread, and wouldn't mind looking back through such a catalog myself. But just know that there may be a taint to the auction/collection. My apologies for mentioning it myself. Wasn't trying to kill your thread, just being honest based on what I've heard/seen. He still probably amassed one of, if not the most, famous, significant, and important memorabilia collections ever put together, even though some items in it may have been fake or tainted. As someone else already mentioned, for many of us with large collections, the chances of us unknowingly having some fake and/or altered/doctored items in our collections is probably much greater than any of us would want to believe. And as for items that may have been stolen from someone else at one time before we ended up acquiring them, that chance is probably more than any of us would like it to be also. Sadly, it is part of the hobby we can't totally get away from.

[Jewish-collector]

Steve - You know better than to start a controversial thread.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Steve - You know better than to start a controversial thread.

I was sort of hoping people didn't think I was being a wise ass here, acting stupid, just trotting out an over flowing gas can and a few matches. I didn't make the connection.
Oh well.

I wonder how much of his tainted stuff has passed through many hands over the years to the point that the taint has worn off and they are being sold by reputable AHs and now in people's collections unknowingly.

[Fred]

It's worth looking through the catalogs. There's a lot more legit stuff than non-legit. You can start keeping track of the non-legit stuff by keeping a log of the stuff.

Yes, it sucks that there were some things that were "misappropriated" or "misrepresented" but again, exceptions not the rule. Don't let the bad outweigh the fun of getting a catalog and thumbing through it.

[Snapolit1]

THanks.

Originally Posted by Fred

It's worth looking through the catalogs. There's a lot more legit stuff than non-legit. You can start keeping track of the non-legit stuff by keeping a log of the stuff.

Yes, it sucks that there were some things that were "misappropriated" or "misrepresented" but again, exceptions not the rule. Don't let the bad outweigh the fun of getting a catalog and thumbing through it.

[MVSNYC]

Fred: +1

I've heard some stories about fake stuff, unfortunately, which absolutely sucks. But, the huge majority of his collection was real, and amazing.

I was at the sale, and have the (huge, incredible) catalog set. If you don't own the set, it's a must get. Look on Amazon or eBay.

[Schwertfeger1007]

Didn't he have a pretty decent collection of cards as well?

Was it just the memorabilia that was questionable or some of the cards as well?

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Fred: +1

I've heard some stories about fake stuff, unfortunately, which absolutely sucks. But, the huge majority of his collection was real, and amazing.

I was at the sale, and have the (huge, incredible) catalog set. If you don't own the set, it's a must get. k on Amazon or eBay.

+1

I was at the sale also and it was the most anticipated sports auction to ever happen. It was loaded with many one of a kind baseball/sports collectibles not seen since. The years haven't been kind to Halper, but he sure had a number of great pieces in his collection.

[puckpaul]

I followed the auction but had a friend bidding for me. I won some amazing items that i cherish; some of the stuff had problems but I remember the sale and the hoopla fondly. There was never another event with that kind of buzz with that much amazing material at a world-leading auction house.

Here are some of the really cool items i won in the auction:

His T227 set (cobb is VG-Ex, uncreased), Johnson is nice but has a crease, there were about 20 cards in the partial set including all the baseball and some dupes with different backs.

Diamond and gold pendants for the World Series in 1903 given to Fred Clarke and for being ‘Champs” given to john McGraw in 1904 for the 1905 season as they used to do it. And a complete 6 bottle set from 1906 of the NY Giants, including a unique Matty bottle.

I also acquired a Dummy Hoy wool jersey that was purchased by Josh Leland that i bought in a subsequent Lelands auction.

Lastly i bought a Leroy Neiman large print of Jerry koosman signed by Neiman and Koosman, wasn’t too expensive a really cool NY Mets item with Koosman a favorite of my youth.

Rob Lifson ran the auction for Sothebys.

My bidder missed a Dummy Hoy cabinet that he was supposed to bid on for me,and i havent seen another one since! (Anyone have that?).

[GasHouseGang]

Gosh, I can't believe you fell for all those fakes.

[bmattioli]

I read this countless times back in '87 and was saddened when then news came out of fakes..

[prestigecollectibles]

Baseball Time Capsule Barry Halper Memorabilia Collection

[BuzzD]

Here is my Dick Starr autograph from the Halper collection. Looks ok but what do I know. Really can't figure out why I once had this framed and hanging on a wall!

[Snapolit1]

As mostly a memorabilia collector at this point, I would kill for a (legitimate) auction of this magnitude and scope.

[Schlesinj]

Thanks for posting that video. I watched the whole thing. I have definitely seen a few of those items that were located throughout the video resold recently on various auction houses.

Interesting how many stories in the video were about people contacting him directly about growing his collection and/or trading via connections. IMO, that seems a lot easier now with technology, websites, social media but back in then pretty impressive.

[roarfrom34]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Unfortunately this event was long before my collecting days started. Sounds prety amazing. Lou's last glove - $50,000 estimate!! And a cool card too.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285165559422

Didn't the late actress/director Penny Marshall win this glove? I believe this was later to be proven as fraudulent as well.

[hcv123]

I remember the auction well. Also still have my catalogs. Went down to view stuff in person. I won 1 lot - an incredible Pete Rose card collection. I think a number of the very high profile items (Mantle glove (won by Billy Crystal), J Jackson uniform, etc) were proven to be other than what they were supposed to be, so while the quantity of questionable/fraudulent items may have been small relative to the quantity offered, the quality of those items I believe, cast a shadow on the collection and Halper as a whole.
The scope was incredible.
Ironically I've had the "baseball card" promotional set (15) sitting on my desk for a week now as I prep it for sale.

[steve B]

AS I recall, there as a huge amount of lesser stuff.
I remember a tv segment on him, and he had a conveyor system like in a dry cleaners to store all the unifoms.

[Keith H. Thompson]

to learn of Barry Halper's well documented transgressions. I knew him personally, have traded with him, and won several 19th century Detroit items at his auction. The overall depth and quality of his collection has had few equals, but his fraudulent attempts to enhance his collection is surpassed every day by TPAs, card doctors, and "opinion experts" of every description ... But like Barry's collection, not everything was enhanced or fake, and today some genuine "stuff" still gets through? I hope.

[bigfanNY]

Before the Auction the Hall of Fame went through the Collection and purchased a sizable portion. Including many significant Ruth and Gehrig items.
Collecting before internet and guides forced anyone involved to learn as they went. And Barry Halper like anyone had to make split second decisions based on background provided by complete strangers.
Very difficult to get it right every time. Looking at his collection as a whole he got it right alot.

[roarfrom34]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

Before the Auction the Hall of Fame went through the Collection and purchased a sizable portion. Including many significant Ruth and Gehrig items.

Actually MLB purchased those items & donated them to the HOF (the HOF doesn't purchase artifacts). For awhile there was a room dedicated at the Hall with a lot of this memorabilia on display.

Once it was discovered that the majority of these items were fraudulent, they were removed. One item in particular I remember was a supposed Joe Jackson game used jersey.

[Bigdaddy]

The first time I heard his name was from an an interview with him and info on his collection - Sports Illustrated I think, but I could be wrong. He was also part owner of the Yankees if I remember correctly.

Fraud is not a new thing in this hobby and seems to show up wherever there is money to be made. Barry had a big checkbook and I'm sure word got around that he was a buyer for high-profile items, bringing both legitimate and fraudulent items to his attention.

Still an amazing collection for one person to put together, but the shine is not quite so bright now that the truth has come out. And I agree with a lot of what Bob C said above about today's collections and what we really know about them.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by BobC

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This has to be the record for the shortest post by BobC in Net54 history. Quoted now for posterity.