PWCC Returns

[robw1959]

I purchased a 1950 Bowman Jackie Robinson card from PWCC back in December (I know; I know - I was dealing with the dark side). After receiving it on January 6th, I immediately contacted their customer service representatives about the condition of the card not quite matching the ad scans. There was paper loss that had originally appeared to me to be a light stain.

I then went through a long and winding road, staying in communication with them, receiving assurances that they would get back to me, etc. But I had to constantly initiate multiple requests for an update on my return status, ever wondering if it would ever meet with their approval.

Their policy (if you can find it) states that the only provision for a merchandise return is if the item is materially different from the ad scans and if the request for a refund is made within 48 hours of receiving it. I was good on both counts. Nevertheless, February came, and I was still getting the run-around. The rep on the phone told me he would get back to me by the end of the day on a Monday, but I still hadn't heard back from him by Thursday. So, figuring they were just leading me on with no intention of granting my request, I filed a dispute with my credit card company.

As of today, they have finally acquiesced, sending me a pre-paid label for the return. However, one of their reps has emailed me a message stating that they cannot process my return until I first cancel the dispute with my credit card company. But I am not sure I'm willing to remove the only insurance I have against them screwing me here. I mean couldn't PWCC just receive the card back and then renege on their pledge to issue the refund, knowing I have no further recourse against them?

I anyone else has been down this rabbit hole with PWCC, I would like to hear about it. At this point I don't just blindly trust that I'll get a favorable outcome with them. Thanks.

[raulus]

I would call my credit card company, and ask them about it. Specifically, can you re-open a dispute for a charge once you cancel a dispute? Or do you only get one bite at the apple?

Be sure to let them know that the vendor is offering a refund, but only if you cancel the dispute first.

If once the dispute is cancelled then the charge can never be re-disputed, then that seems like a tight spot to be in.

[rand1com]

Was the card you bought graded?

[nwobhm]

I would not cancel the dispute….let them figure it out. They held your $ for two months.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have a friend who sells a lot of cards and offers a no questions asked return policy, you might be surprised how very few returns he gets. This is just bad policy to fight a customer over a return.

[robw1959]

After speaking to my credit card company, I will not cancel the dispute until I've been refunded. What kind of a company would tell a customer that they can't process a refund, even after receiving the returned merchandise, until a dispute has been cancelled? The credit card rep told me earlier today that unscrupulous companies use that same line all the time. Then once the dispute has been cancelled, they fail to refund, knowing that the dispute cannot be reopened again.

[dmats33312]

I would think the email you received about them granting you a refund but you not getting it would bolster your dispute on your credit card and you can give them the emails as proof they said they will refund you but you haven't been refunded.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have a friend who sells a lot of cards and offers a no questions asked return policy, you might be surprised how very few returns he gets. This is just bad policy to fight a customer over a return.

I agree and have always had that policy when selling.

Originally Posted by robw1959

After speaking to my credit card company, I will not cancel the dispute until I've been refunded. What kind of a company would tell a customer that they can't process a refund, even after receiving the returned merchandise, until a dispute has been cancelled? The credit card rep told me earlier today that unscrupulous companies use that same line all the time. Then once the dispute has been cancelled, they fail to refund, knowing that the dispute cannot be reopened again.

Nice info to know.

[Johnny630]

I’m sorry about your situation with them. Please Save yourself a lot of future trouble and buy cards elsewhere. Hope for the best buddy.

[JollyElm]

Time to go on the offensive and flip it on PWCC. As was said, show your credit card company the messages from them (which seem to be an obvious attempt to screw you over in the end) and wait for a full refund to be issued...then DON'T send the card back. Good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.

[G1911]

Should you trust a fraud ring to follow through on their word after you throw away your other option? Probably not.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Time to go on the offensive and flip it on PWCC. As was said, show your credit card company the messages from them (which seem to be an obvious attempt to screw you over in the end) and wait for a full refund to be issued...then DON'T send the card back. Good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.

i 100% agree with this. dont waste your time with a bunch of scandalous fools. time is money. make them waste theirs. not yours.

Darius Houseal

[robw1959]

Yup. Lesson learned. Actually, because of my dispute, PWCC banned me from any future purchases even though I wasn't planning on making any.

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I’m sorry about your situation with them. Please Save yourself a lot of future trouble and buy cards elsewhere. Hope for the best buddy.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have a friend who sells a lot of cards and offers a no questions asked return policy, you might be surprised how very few returns he gets. This is just bad policy to fight a customer over a return.

Steve_Novella is a 1st class ebay seller. I've bought several items from him.

It doesn't surprise me that he handles customer issues quickly, and that their occurrence is rare.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Kidnapped18]

I hope your issue gets resolved soon! Keep the hold on the credit card.

I still purchase from PWCC and have never had any issues with them or the cards I've won.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Yup. Lesson learned. Actually, because of my dispute, PWCC banned me from any future purchases even though I wasn't planning on making any.

Self control goes along way in modeling changes in business behavior. The reason many of these businesses continue to act the way do is that people can’t control themselves enough to not do business with them in the first place. If collectors had it businesses would have to change their behavior. Auction Houses and Grading Companeis can do what they want based on the psychology of collectors.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Time to go on the offensive and flip it on PWCC. As was said, show your credit card company the messages from them (which seem to be an obvious attempt to screw you over in the end) and wait for a full refund to be issued...then DON'T send the card back. Good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.

IMO, this bold part would make you no better than PWCC. You are intentionally keeping a product that you didn't pay for. To me, that's the same as if you went into their building and stole it.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

IMO, this bold part would make you no better than PWCC. You are intentionally keeping a product that you didn't pay for. To me, that's the same as if you went into their building and stole it.

+1 don’t do that

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by robw1959

The credit card rep told me earlier today that unscrupulous companies use that same line all the time. Then once the dispute has been cancelled, they fail to refund, knowing that the dispute cannot be reopened again.

Holy crap! PWCC tried to cheat you? In other news, the sky is blue and the sun rose in the East today.

Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have a friend who sells a lot of cards and offers a no questions asked return policy, you might be surprised how very few returns he gets.

Not really. Most of the complaints I get as a seller on eBay (and there are very few) are from buyers who do NOT want to return the item. They really want to renegotiate the price. I don't take returns except when eBay mandates it but if someone PMs me and wants to cancel a sale before I fulfill it, thats fine with me. No point in leaning into a fight.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Not really. Most of the complaints I get as a seller on eBay (and there are very few) are from buyers who do NOT want to return the item. They really want to renegotiate the price. I don't take returns except when eBay mandates it but if someone PMs me and wants to cancel a sale before I fulfill it, thats fine with me. No point in leaning into a fight.

I have no problem with anyone returning anything but yes, F those BLEEPING losers that want a partial refund.

One a good note PWCC has never screwed me either. Then again I don't buy from known crooks.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Not really. Most of the complaints I get as a seller on eBay (and there are very few) are from buyers who do NOT want to return the item. They really want to renegotiate the price. I don't take returns except when eBay mandates it but if someone PMs me and wants to cancel a sale before I fulfill it, thats fine with me. No point in leaning into a fight.

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have no problem with anyone returning anything but yes, F those BLEEPING losers that want a partial refund.

One a good note PWCC has never screwed me either. Then again I don't buy from known crooks.

+1 we gladly give full refunds for returns, we don't tend to renegotiate sales though.

[chalupacollects]

Don't cancel the credit card dispute, once you are refunded call or email the related association (Visa or Mastercard) and file a complaint. They can set a large fine and/or cancel their processing, especially if they have other complaints.

Who needs that crap....

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

IMO, this bold part would make you no better than PWCC. You are intentionally keeping a product that you didn't pay for. To me, that's the same as if you went into their building and stole it.

Of course. My point is if PWCC is trying to screw him over, then do the same back to them. If someone swings at you, you swing back!

[robw1959]

I get that, but I do have to face myself in the mirror every day, so I will not compromise my integrity just to get even with those guys.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Sounds like a real PITA, sorry to hear, OP. I won't be dealing with them anytime soon.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Agree, take the high road.

[JollyElm]

Don't wish to belabor the point, but don't want a mischaracterization either.

We're not talking about the same 'high road' here. If you're walking down the street and some innocent person unknowingly drops their wallet, and you pick it up and give it back to them (as we all would), that's taking the high road. But if some scumbag criminal tries to steal your wallet, and you end up with HIS wallet after the scuffle is over and don't give it back, you're the bad guy????

If that happened, not only would I be able to sleep like a baby at night, but I would have no trouble looking in the mirror when I hit the bathroom to take a whiz at four in the morning.

The instance being discussed here is a helluva lot closer to the latter than the former.

Rant over.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Interesting question. I guess my gut reaction is I still would not feel right keeping the would be thief's wallet. Not preaching, just speaking for myself on this one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

wrong thread

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Interesting question. I guess my gut reaction is I still would not feel right keeping the would be thief's wallet. Not preaching, just speaking for myself on this one.

Yeah, I'd turn it in to the police with the explanation of how I came to have it.
Then just let them do what they will.

[steve B]

Returns and similar things on ebay or in person are an interesting thing.

I botched one early on a cancelled sale, was a bit snippy in an email to someone who could have been an interesting contact later.

From there I started waiting to respond if I was mad.

Most of the ebay complaints were ones that were entirely valid, and I think I surprised the handful of people who did have complaints. Fortunately I mostly sold cheap stuff so it was pretty easy to surprise people with a good response. I did generally ask questions though.
Like one guy said a bicycle helmet he'd bought was cracked. It was brand new, so that was a bit surprising. Thinking it was a crack caused in shipping I asked if he could send a pic of he crack. Nope, it had a molding around the edge, and under that was multiple cracks. checked my other ones, and they were all cracked
Obviously refunded the whole thing, shipping included and thanked him for pointing it out as I'd never thought of checking under the mouding.
He asked about returning it and I didn't want it back. It was plain white, so i suggested he let a local artist or grafitti person go crazy on it then turning it in to a lamp or wall art. Which he seemed to like.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

If that happened, not only would I be able to sleep like a baby at night, but I would have no trouble looking in the mirror when I hit the bathroom to take a whiz at four in the morning.

Only once per night!? I wish it was only once per night...