Collecting every team

[BuzzD]

If you were to try to collect one card from every major and minor league team, which team would be the most difficult? exclude postcards. Post 1900.

[Lobo Aullando]

Especially in the first part of the 20th century, there were so many minor league teams that would start off the season and then blinker out of existence by the second month. There must be scores of teams for which nothing more than a few dozen newspaper articles exist.

Baseball Reference has the standings of dozens of leagues during those times, yet hardly any statistics. And sometimes there aren't even standings, although I guess at least there's chance some exist on microfiche in some mid-size city's library.

I'd love to run across something from the Aberdeen Black Cats or Bremerton Bluejackets. I just know that it's not happening.

Originally Posted by BuzzD

If you were to try to collect one card from every major and minor league team, which team would be the most difficult? exclude postcards. Post 1900.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by BuzzD

If you were to try to collect one card from every major and minor league team, which team would be the most difficult? exclude postcards. Post 1900.

I honestly don't know for certain, but suspect/suggest maybe from one of the California League teams that appeared in the N172 Old Judge set. Also seem to remember a discussion or two about some other team in the Old Judge set that maybe only appeared on a single card of a single player. Oh, and then there are the Player's League teams in the Old Judge set as well. Somewhat similar to the Federal League that was only around as a minor league in 1913, and then as a third major league in 1914 and 1915. Some of those Federal League teams made it onto Cracker Jack cards. The Player's League was formed in late 1889, and played only a single season in 1890, which was also the last year OJ cards were distributed before Goodwin & Co. was taken over during the year and became part of the ATC. Those are some of the more well-known rare team cards out there that immediately come to mind. And finding one for sale, let alone then being able to afford to buy it, may be virtually impossible.

It is also very likely there are some extremely obscure and rare minor league card sets out there that included teams only around for a very short period of time, where maybe only a card or two of a particular team still exists. But those instances can be so rare and obscure, they may not even be known yet to the hobby today, and simply still sitting in a box or scrapbook in someone's basement or attic. Or they could otherwise be buried in some private collection. So even if you found what you think is the answer today, it could change tomorrow.

So, outside some really obscure minor league team(s), I'd nominate some of those OJ cards I previously mentioned.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BobC

I honestly don't know for certain, but suspect/suggest maybe from one of the California League teams that appeared in the N172 Old Judge set. Also seem to remember a discussion or two about some other team in the Old Judge set that maybe only appeared on a single card of a single player. Oh, and then there are the Player's League teams in the Old Judge set as well. Somewhat similar to the Federal League that was only around as a minor league in 1913, and then as a third major league in 1914 and 1915. Some of those Federal League teams made it onto Cracker Jack cards. The Player's League was formed in late 1889, and played only a single season in 1890, which was also the last year OJ cards were distributed before Goodwin & Co. was taken over during the year and became part of the ATC. Those are some of the more well-known rare team cards out there that immediately come to mind. And finding one for sale, let alone then being able to afford to buy it, may be virtually impossible
It is also very likely there are some extremely obscure and rare minor league card sets out there that included teams only around for a very short period of time, where maybe only a card or two of a particular team still exists. But those instances can be so rare and obscure, they may not even be known yet to the hobby today, and simply still sitting in a box or scrapbook in someone's basement or attic. Or they could otherwise be buried in some private collection. So even if you found what you think is the answer today, it could change tomorrow.

So, outside some really obscure minor league team(s), I'd nominate some of those OJ cards I previously mentioned.

Post 1900 Bob and no postcards or I would nominate 1908 Rose PC Scranton Miners. Tough question and really obscure when adding the minor leagues in the mix, so many one and done minor league sets out there.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Post 1900 Bob and no postcards or I would nominate 1908 Rose PC Scranton Miners. Tough question and really obscure when adding the minor leagues in the mix, so many one and done minor league sets out there.

Sorry, sorry ,sorry, my bad, missed the post 1900 point. I still mention the Federal League teams from 1913-1915. Outside of Cracker Jacks, not really sure where you'd find them. And so many rare and obscure minor league teams after 1900, there's probably some regional issue where only a card or two from a particular team still exists. And there are probably still some others out there that no one may even know about in the overall hobby yet. Bob Lemke and his SCD catalog crew never listed every single card set that ever existed. I'm sure there are some that even they didn't know about.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BobC

Sorry, sorry ,sorry, my bad, missed the post 1900 point. I still mention the Federal League teams from 1913-1915. Outside of Cracker Jacks, not really sure where you'd find them. And so many rare and obscure minor league teams after 1900, there's probably some regional issue where only a card or two from a particular team still exists. And there are probably still some others out there that no one may even know about in the overall hobby yet. Bob Lemke and his SCD catalog crew never listed every single card set that ever existed. I'm sure there are some that even they didn't know about.

I'd also nominate the H998 Western Playground set although one could find the same players in other west cost issues.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'd also nominate the H998 Western Playground set although one could find the same players in other west cost issues.

But the OP's question depends on the team, not the players, right? That's what can make this question all the tougher. Also, listings of sets and such don't always automatically include the teams they were shown playing for. For many, you need to get images of pretty much all the different cards in every set to verify the teams, or be prepared to do a lot of cross-checking of players to teams they played with over the years. I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to obscure minor league teams. There may be some others on the board aware of some of these really obscure and rare minor league sets, that could lead to images of even rarer minor league team's players.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BobC

But the OP's question depends on the team, not the players, right? That's what can make this question all the tougher. Also, listings of sets and such don't always automatically include the teams they were shown playing for. For many, you need to get images of pretty much all the different cards in every set to verify the teams, or be prepared to do a lot of cross-checking of players to teams they played with over the years. I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to obscure minor league teams. There may be some others on the board aware of some of these really obscure and rare minor league sets, that could lead to images of even rarer minor league team's players.

Agreed, every west coast team could be covered with Obaks, OPs post makes my brain do too much math.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Agreed, every west coast team could be covered with Obaks, OPs post makes my brain do too much math.

Agree 100% Phil, that is an absolutely great, and also exceedingly tough as hell question by the OP. I don't know if anyone could even do more to answer it than to simply make their best educated guess. Still waiting to hear some possible answers from others.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by BobC

Sorry, sorry ,sorry, my bad, missed the post 1900 point. I still mention the Federal League teams from 1913-1915. Outside of Cracker Jacks, not really sure where you'd find them. And so many rare and obscure minor league teams after 1900, there's probably some regional issue where only a card or two from a particular team still exists. And there are probably still some others out there that no one may even know about in the overall hobby yet. Bob Lemke and his SCD catalog crew never listed every single card set that ever existed. I'm sure there are some that even they didn't know about.

Bob, right off the top of my head, I know there are cards of Federal League players in the T214 and T216 sets, and perhaps in other sets as well. Here's a T214 Federal League card:

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Bob, right off the top of my head, I know there are cards of Federal League players in the T214 and T216 sets, and perhaps in other sets as well. Here's a T214 Federal League card:

Thanks Val,

Like I said, I wasn't sure, and was hoping if I was wrong that someone else might speak up, so thank you for chiming in. For me, the T214 and T216 sets are ones I never really got into collecting, so don't know much about them. Always great to learn something new though.

[BobC]

Hey, for the OP, here's the list of teams that made up the Federal League from 1913-1915. It might be used to look at what cards of what Federal League teams did show up in the Cracker Jack, T214, and T216 sets. There could maybe be a case where only one card for a particular Federal League team was ever issued among these different sets. That would certainly seem to make that team's card a possible candidate to answer the OP's question.


Teams........................Seasons.....Comment
Baltimore Terrapins......1914–15
Brooklyn Tip-Tops........1914–15
Buffalo Blues...............1914–15....Initially known as the Buffeds
Chicago Whales...........1913–15.....Initially known as the Federals or Keeleys
Cleveland Green Sox....1913
Covington Blue Sox......1913..........Also known as the Colonels. Transferred to Kansas City, mid-season 1913
Indianapolis Hoosiers....1913–14.....Moved to Newark in 1915
Kansas City Packers......1913–15.....Had been in Covington until mid-season 1913
Newark Peppers...........1915...........Moved from Indianapolis following the 1914 season
Pittsburgh Rebels.........1913–15.....Known as the Filipinos in 1913, and initially as the Stogies in 1914
St. Louis Terriers....... ..1913–15

After coming across some more info regarding Federal League teams on baseball cards, from SABR's site, looks like one of the Federal League teams may not be the answer to the OP's question after all. The article also mentions heretofore unnamed other sets that Federal League team players were included in.

https://sabr.org/research/article/fe...aseball-cards/

[brianp-beme]

Here is a relatively recent thread that has some good information on sets featuring Federal League players.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...hlight=federal

Brian

[BuzzD]

Maybe Bresnahan, Toledo Iron Men 1916-19?

[nolemmings]

This T213-2 should prove to be a challenge (not mine of course):


You'll probably encounter some pretty obscure team-issued minor league sets as well.

[FrankWakefield]

I'm thinking that there will be several minor league cards for a team that was in existance only briefly... that would be the answer to the OP's enquiry.

But golly, seeing BobC's list of Federal League teams, I don't recall seeing a card for that 1913 team that was in my home state; anyone ever seen a card for the Covington Blue Sox or the Covington Colonels? If you have one can you post one?

[oldjudge]

In the Old Judge set it would be Wilkes Barre --only one card known of John Irwin with the team.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

In the Old Judge set it would be Wilkes Barre --only one card known of John Irwin with the team.

Thanks Jay, that was the one I was thinking of, but couldn't remember.

[FrankWakefield]

If you differentiate teams by the leagues, names, and classification... there probablly aren't many cards of anyone from the Stockton team in the California League, the first of such named leagues. That team had three seasons, 1888, 1889, and 1890.


https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1673753546



But you guys may well have dozens of them. I've been wanting an SF Hess card for a long time. Finally got one.

[Section103]

I think this is the kind of question that can truly be understood by attempting to collect over a long period of time. Its kind of like (but even more complicated) trying to complete a set of a famous ball player with an extensive list of cards. You start out knowing the basics by collecting the known, conventional wisdom, but as you go through it, you find out more and more that is virtually unknown leading you to deeper rabbit holes. It is one hell of an interesting attempt that surely would be tremendously rewarding to a collector.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

If you differentiate teams by the leagues, names, and classification... there probablly aren't many cards of anyone from the Stockton team in the California League, the first of such named leagues. That team had three seasons, 1888, 1889, and 1890.


https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1673753546



But you guys may well have dozens of them. I've been wanting an SF Hess card for a long time. Finally got one.

Congrats on the pickup Frank, love the SF Hess.

[jjbond]

Just saw this thread, and it got me thinking - *WERE* there cards of the 1913 Federal League teams? (when they were a minor league). So, the Green Sox, Colonels/Blue Sox/Packers, Filipinos, Keeleys, Hoosiers, Terriers. Had never thought that that could be a possibility......

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey, for the OP, here's the list of teams that made up the Federal League from 1913-1915. It might be used to look at what cards of what Federal League teams did show up in the Cracker Jack, T214, and T216 sets. There could maybe be a case where only one card for a particular Federal League team was ever issued among these different sets. That would certainly seem to make that team's card a possible candidate to answer the OP's question.


Teams........................Seasons.....Comment
Baltimore Terrapins......1914–15
Brooklyn Tip-Tops........1914–15
Buffalo Blues...............1914–15....Initially known as the Buffeds
Chicago Whales...........1913–15.....Initially known as the Federals or Keeleys
Cleveland Green Sox....1913
Covington Blue Sox......1913..........Also known as the Colonels. Transferred to Kansas City, mid-season 1913
Indianapolis Hoosiers....1913–14.....Moved to Newark in 1915
Kansas City Packers......1913–15.....Had been in Covington until mid-season 1913
Newark Peppers...........1915...........Moved from Indianapolis following the 1914 season
Pittsburgh Rebels.........1913–15.....Known as the Filipinos in 1913, and initially as the Stogies in 1914
St. Louis Terriers....... ..1913–15

After coming across some more info regarding Federal League teams on baseball cards, from SABR's site, looks like one of the Federal League teams may not be the answer to the OP's question after all. The article also mentions heretofore unnamed other sets that Federal League team players were included in.

https://sabr.org/research/article/fe...aseball-cards/