1911 Obak card debunks story of inventor of the forkball

[brianp-beme]

On a variety of places on the internet Bullet Joe Bush is credited with inventing the forkball sometime after World War 1.

Funny thing is, I was checking 1911 Obak backs for another thread and came across the below Bert Hall of Tacoma card. In the writeup on the back, it mentions that "Hall is the only pitcher who has mastered the "fork ball", over which he has marvelous control", and then goes on to identify that he places the ball between his index and middle fingers (thus describing the grip that is identified with the forkball).

Funny thing, part 2, I then also found an article that was just published yesterday on the pinstripealley.com site that includes the following passage:

Former Red Sox and Yankees pitcher Leslie Ambrose “Bullet Joe” Bush often gets credited with the invention of the forkball, as he used the pitch to great effect in the years following the First World War, because injuries and arm fatigue prevented him from throwing a more traditional curveball. His claim, however, is a bit tenuous, even if nobody disputes the fact that he find success in the Major Leagues with it. In their 1987 book The Pitcher, John B. Holway and MLB official historian John Thorn instead credit Mike Lynch, a center fielder who played seven games for the Chicago Orphans in 1902. According to them, Lynch didn’t use it himself, but taught it to teammate Bert Hall, who played seven games for the Philadelphia Phillies in 1911.

The moral of the story is, sometimes you find out more than you were looking for on the back of a vintage card (in this case, the pitcher who perhaps helped develop a pitch still used today). And I thought it deserved its own thread.

Brian

[G1911]

Reading the backs is often as fun as the pictures on the fronts. The Obaks are a fun little set.

[Lobo Aullando]

The 1911 Hall Tacoma is the first Obak I ever acquired, and that didn't strike me as notable at all. Everybody knows what a forkball is. (Now, of course.)

[brianp-beme]

I always thought debunking was a hot topic, but I just checked, and this particular thread has the fewest views of the over 200 threads I have started on the main forum over the years, at 325 views or so. This thread tapped me on the shoulder and indicated it needs a boost, for self-confidence reasons.

On a personal note, I tried for many a year but failed to debunk my older brother from the top spot...he liked to tuck himself in with his sheets wrapped under the mattress. Which was probably smart on his behalf, considering the lofty perch he slept upon.

Brian (forever the bottom bunk dweller)

P.S. When you come to a forkball in the road, try finding the catcher who is best at keeping it from ending up at the backstop.

[Orioles1954]

I’ll take T212 over T206 any day of the week.

[jingram058]

Quite often, it ain't about the money. Cool story, cool card.

[JustinD]

I love the story and I always find this card interesting to hear of this developing seemingly late.

As a baseball player (the only sport I was fairly good at) for my youth and teens until a shoulder injury (add Al Bundy story here). It is an odd thought as I learned as an elementary kid that I could only get a fast and accurate throw with a fork finger position. I have always done it and I rotated between third and catcher my entire time throwing a fork always. Drove any new coaches crazy until they saw it was decent, I can't throw worth a lick any other way.

[benge610]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

On a variety of places on the internet Bullet Joe Bush is credited with inventing the forkball sometime after World War 1.

Funny thing is, I was checking 1911 Obak backs for another thread and came across the below Bert Hall of Tacoma card. In the writeup on the back, it mentions that "Hall is the only pitcher who has mastered the "fork ball", over which he has marvelous control", and then goes on to identify that he places the ball between his index and middle fingers (thus describing the grip that is identified with the forkball).

Funny thing, part 2, I then also found an article that was just published yesterday on the pinstripealley.com site that includes the following passage:

Former Red Sox and Yankees pitcher Leslie Ambrose “Bullet Joe” Bush often gets credited with the invention of the forkball, as he used the pitch to great effect in the years following the First World War, because injuries and arm fatigue prevented him from throwing a more traditional curveball. His claim, however, is a bit tenuous, even if nobody disputes the fact that he find success in the Major Leagues with it. In their 1987 book The Pitcher, John B. Holway and MLB official historian John Thorn instead credit Mike Lynch, a center fielder who played seven games for the Chicago Orphans in 1902. According to them, Lynch didn’t use it himself, but taught it to teammate Bert Hall, who played seven games for the Philadelphia Phillies in 1911.

The moral of the story is, sometimes you find out more than you were looking for on the back of a vintage card (in this case, the pitcher who perhaps helped develop a pitch still used today). And I thought it deserved its own thread.

Brian

This thread is right in my wheelhouse.
Thank you Brian for sharing.
I stumble upon things sometimes; just from reading info shared on the card. Griffith's T205 for ex: "first played as a semi-professional in Bloomington, IL"! On to digest his SABR paper further! One of my projects focuses on MLBer's born in; lived/coached/played in my home state of IL. Fun in the hobby.

Ben

"I love baseball history backstory; especially when it involves cards."