CSG Grading - Is It a Real Option Yet?

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

We've all heard the news that CSG is becoming linked with ebay in some weird authentication program. My questions for this group:

1-Have you ever submitted to CSG?

2-Do you feel they are a real option for vintage collections?

3-Any early impressions on their grading standards (similar to SGC, PSA)?

Here's their website:
https://www.csgcards.com/

I have not used them yet.

[CobbSpikedMe]

1. No, I have never submitted to CSG.

2. I think they are fine to use for your collection if you are only interested in having your card in a slab for protection and you don't mind their larger flip (personally I like their flip when the subgrades are listed, but I don't like the emptiness when there are no subgrades.) They are also a less expensive option with faster turnaround times than the others.

3, From what I've heard they are somewhat tough graders with tight standards so they do compare to PSA and SGC in some compacity. At least that's what folks who have used them have been saying.

[npa589]

It really does depend on what you want it for.

At this point, the ship has sailed on anyone that's going to compete with PSA in terms of resale value.

SGC is the only one close - but the main issue is the well established Set Registry which introduced competition to people with disposable incomes. That was the knockout punch years ago. Any TPG that wants to supplant PSA or even become close to them will have to gradually steal market share for the competitive aspect of the hobby (set registries). If SGC is going to do it, it'll take decades.

[Johnny630]

No, to me they way over grade.

This is horrible for a 8. Corners are weak, back corner has a crease.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...e+csg&_sacat=0

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

1. No, I have never submitted to CSG.

2. I think they are fine to use for your collection if you are only interested in having your card in a slab for protection and you don't mind their larger flip (personally I like their flip when the subgrades are listed, but I don't like the emptiness when there are no subgrades.) They are also a less expensive option with faster turnaround times than the others.

3, From what I've heard they are somewhat tough graders with tight standards so they do compare to PSA and SGC in some compacity. At least that's what folks who have used them have been saying.

agree with all here. if you collect to try to make money, buying CSG cards to remove and flip to PSA isn't a terrible idea. may take forever and profit margins probably not enormous, but as was said above, CSG grades pretty tough.

[53toppscollector]

I am pretty much done with graded cards for my own personal collection, so they aren't an option. If grading to sell ever becomes a viable option again, I don't see how they'd be viable given how awful their flip is, and how far they lag behind PSA in terms of re-sale.

PSA has made so many mistakes in the last few years, yet they've remained at the top, and I can't really see that changing.

If you like the flip, and if you are just using them because you want the card encapsulated, then go for it I guess. If you are thinking about how much you'll be able to sell the card for in the future and it matters to you, I'd probably steer clear.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

personally I like their flip when the subgrades are listed, but I don't like the emptiness when there are no subgrades.

I agree. This is not unique to CSG, but it also annoys me that they can't even be bothered to properly set a tobacco card in their slab (as shown in OP's example image). Wouldn't it be a no-brainer to pay attention to this if they want to compete with PSA and SGC?

[edhans]

I gave them a small order just to see how they did. Service was as advertised, pricing was fair and they seem to be knowledgeable. They've jumped on the I'm-the-toughest-grader-in-town bandwagon, however. Not necessarily the worst thing, as long as they're consistent.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

No, to me they way over grade.

This is horrible for a 8. Corners are weak, back corner has a crease.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...e+csg&_sacat=0

I mean, jeez, just replace this with the 10's of 1000's of PSA 8's, 9's and 10's that are basically just trimmed authentics.

I think they're fine. Slabs are almost the exact same size as PSA, so not sure why people are hung up on the size of the flips.

I sent them about 20 cards or so. They might grade vintage differently from PSA, but I know for sure I got some modern-ish (late 70's-80's foreign issues) 9's and 9.5's, that seem to be graded tougher then some PSA 10's I sent in and got back around the exact same time.

10's seem to be nearly impossible from them.

I'll admit, that Chase does look horrible in that flip. Hopefully it's just a hiccup, as all the TPG's have gone through periods of sloppy gasket placements and inserts at one time or another.

Got several "Newton's Rings" examples from PSA, that are rather annoying, but likely not damaging in any sort of way.

[Orioles1954]

Based on the initial hype and their background I thought they would have a bigger footprint by now.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Based on the initial hype and their background I thought they would have a bigger footprint by now.

I wonder if getting bought out right after forming had any effect?
.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Leon

I wonder if getting bought out right after forming had any effect?
.

I wasn't aware of that. Probably.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

I like the idea of another non-PSA option that is affordable and timely.

My concerns are:
-will resale values approach SGC / BGS levels?
-will they grade consistently?
-can they do something about improving the look on the undersized cards? T206’s look ridiculous when the flip is so disproportionately large.

I guess time is needed to answer these questions. There clearly is room for another grading company in this space.

[bbcard1]

Another cheaper option is a toploader.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Another cheaper option is a toploader.

I couldn’t help but laugh at that one Todd! Thanks….

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

I recently watched with interest some CSG graded 1952 Bowmans at auction because I had your same question. In some small sample sizes (also noting that there are many factors at play on eBay in addition to the grade such as eye appeal, centering, shilling, who the seller is, etc. etc.) I have seen that CSG card prices are lower than PSA and close-ish to SGC.

Here's a snapshot of the Mantles I was using for a recent comparison. A recent CSG Grade 4, and the most recent PSA 4 and SGC 4 grades.

MantleCompare.jpg

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Great example John, thanks for the data.

[lowpopper]

Love those NGC graded cards!

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by npa589

the main issue is the well established Set Registry which introduced competition to people with disposable incomes. That was the knockout punch years ago.

This is probably true. However, I’ve never personally understood the registry or its appeal. Many hobbies require time, talent and skill, such as photography, gardening, painting, etc. The set registry just requires money. Period.

Anyone with enough money can climb the ranks. All it requires is having enough money to buy the highest numerically graded card in a specific set. That’s it. Not much skill or talent. If Warren Buffet or Bill Gates wanted to have the best set registry, they could make it happen relatively quickly with checks. However, they couldn’t become master photographers or gardeners overnight. It takes time, skill, and talent.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

This is probably true. However, I’ve never personally understood the registry or its appeal. Many hobbies require time, talent and skill, such as photography, gardening, painting, etc. The set registry just requires money. Period.

Anyone with enough money can climb the ranks. All it requires is having enough money to buy the highest numerically graded card in a specific set. That’s it. Not much skill or talent. If Warren Buffet or Bill Gates wanted to have the best set registry, they could make it happen relatively quickly with checks. However, they couldn’t become master photographers or gardeners overnight. It takes time, skill, and talent.

I agree.

I will say the registry is a powerful drug. I never gave graded cards a thought because I laughed at how silly it was. Then I got a set of beyond amazing vintage cards. I had the entire set graded back when it was cheap. I had the 3rd best complete set. Then I got addicted to make it the highest graded set. Luckily I kicked the habit and sold almost all my graded cards. I have less than 20 now.

Kicking the graded card silliness(to me) was the best hobby choice I ever made.

[Snowman]

As an FYI, I've been told that CSG is going to be changing their flips in the not too distant future. Apparently, they have been sending out surveys with what the new ones might look like.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Snowman

As an FYI, I've been told that CSG is going to be changing their flips in the not too distant future. Apparently, they have been sending out surveys with what the new ones might look like.

Makes sense. I was wondering when Blackstone, their owner, would do this to make them more profitable. Will be interesting to see what they come up with. Going to be hard to top SGC's look. I hope they don't just rip off SGC's black slabs.

[ClementeFanOh]

The sample size I've seen is limited; however, they seem to get the grades
right, which is what i care about. As with any TPG card, the best approach is
to buy the card, not the holder. Trent King

[GoldenAge50s]

I sent them around 60 cards back in the early beginning, mainly because of the lesser wait time & reasonable pricing. I also wanted to see how a new Company would fare.

I definitely feel they were TOUGHER on Centering than any of the established graders, and feel many of my cards were, if anything, UNDERGRADED!

I believe several of my cards stand a good chance of an upgrade if resubmitted to PSA or SGC!

[Natedog]

Back in the beginning of May I sent them an order of 50+ cards - mostly modern, 80's/90's and even some pre-war mixed in as well for my PC. I wanted to try them out and take advantage of their $8/card bulk promotion. Unfortunately, by that time they were already inundated with submissions. So here I am, 8+ months later still waiting for my cards. When I sent them in, the wait time listed on their website was ~60 business days. Ha! I'm still amazed by how these TPG's can get away with this without recourse.

As far as them being a major player in the grading game - maybe some day. I don't mind their slabs, even without the sub grades. Problem is, PSA is cemented as the #1 option for the foreseeable future, and as long as they keep getting the best ROI, it's not going to change.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

The sample size I've seen is limited; however, they seem to get the grades
right, which is what i care about. As with any TPG card, the best approach is
to buy the card, not the holder. Trent King

I agree. The grades I've seen have been pretty accurate and that's all I care about as well.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

I sent them around 60 cards back in the early beginning, mainly because of the lesser wait time & reasonable pricing. I also wanted to see how a new Company would fare.

I definitely feel they were TOUGHER on Centering than any of the established graders, and feel many of my cards were, if anything, UNDERGRADED!

I believe several of my cards stand a good chance of an upgrade if resubmitted to PSA or SGC!

I sent about 40 or 50 cards to CSG at the beginning. All modern cards. The grades were overly harsh. Stupidly harsh. I cracked out all of the cards that were any good (8 or 9 of them) and crossed them over to PSA and SGC. All but one got a grade bump at PSA and SGC. Cards that are perfectly 50/50 centered on front getting 8.5 sub grades because back centering is 60/40. It's absolutely ridiculous.

But the crazy thing is they seem to overgrade vintage. Cards that would get 3s at PSA get 5s at CSG. It's just an entirely different grading scale. It's like a blend of PSA for modern and BVG for vintage but with the BGS grading scale.

[edhans]

Originally Posted by Snowman

But the crazy thing is they seem to overgrade vintage.

My experience is the exact opposite.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by edhans

My experience is the exact opposite.

That's encouraging at least.

[brewing]

I have submitted to them and I'm sold. I'm hoping that over time they'll gain a foothold. Grading is mostly fair, sometimes inconsistent (an issue with all TPGs). Service has been great so far.

The subgrades help alot because they tell some of the story of the final grade.

I detest the massive flip, especially when they don't include the back of a T206 because they use the space to specify photo. Plenty of space next to T206 to but the back. Absolutely no reason the back of a T206 shouldn't be added.

I still wish that they went with a black insert like SGC and dumped the baggy

[Exhibitman]

I think their holder is the best of all worlds. Dimensioned like PSA, no sliders or rattlers, no damage from a bad gasket cut. Crystal clear all around. Service was good and the grading was reasonable (maybe even too strict by a grade or so). if they had a tall boy holder I'd be all over it.

[GrewUpWithJunkWax]

One of CSG's distinctions is the sub-grades, so I agree those slabs without seem empty.

But the CSG slabs do seem to offer more value to a buyer over the likes of PSA.

[icurnmedic]

I really like the holder being clear.
But... I do not care for them grading vintage. Not sure why but the eye Appeal isn't there with the vintage cards , or really any card that is not a shiny or dark and glossy card.
And that flip, is god awful.
Customer service was pretty good as well.
Thomas