1869 Red Stockings

[GaryPassamonte]

Isn't it odd that we do not know who took this most famous of all 19th century images? Most cdvs have a photographer's imprint either on the front or back of the cdv. This practice is almost universal on images of well known/famous teams. What photographer would not want to be credited with taking this image of the Red Stocking team that was taking the nation by storm in 1869 and 1870? The photograph was obviously taken in a studio. Was it taken in Cincinnati, New York, or elsewhere? Did someone, such as Peck and Snyder buy the rights to the image? All 1869 Red Stocking cdv mounts are of a similar style and were most likely produced in the 1869-1870 period when the team was at its greatest point of fame. There a couple reverses which include team rosters, as well as advertising ( P & S, Chadwick book). There are some with a few different styles, listing the team roster. There are many that are blank backed. Were the blank backed ones meant to have advertising on the reverse like a trade card? It is interesting that this photograph still presents us with many unanswered questions.

[bgar3]

Gary, we do know and I posted a long piece on who and when, not sure how to post the link here, but the short answer is the photo was taken by Huff of Newark, NJ. No doubt taken between June 16 and 18, most likely the 18th before their game with Irvington, which is very close to Newark. The photo was commissioned by Harper’s and used as the basis for their famous woodcut.

[GaryPassamonte]

Boy, that was fast, Bruce. I don't remember the thread. Maybe someone more adept than I am can post a link.

[bgar3]

Gary, there is also a thread on the priority of the dates of the different variations , with great research by Kevin Struss. Finally there is a thread with an attempt to catalogue the various 1869 team images, many of which were used for multiple purposes, for example, the heads from this image were used in the Leslie’s full page illustration in July 17, 1869.

[GaryPassamonte]

I found this one, Bruce.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=233197

[bgar3]

That is one, there is at least one other with the priority information. I think it is interesting that the priority info has not made it into any auction descriptions.
I don’t care about grading services but I don’t think they have noted any priority either.
I think Kevin’s research was laid out in January 2018 sometime if that helps.

[GaryPassamonte]

Number 2. I still haven't found reference to a photo credit. I'll keep searching.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=250619

[Baseball Rarities]

Hi Gary - I think that the Harper’s Weekly credits Huff as being the photographer. I will try and post an image when I get to a computer.

[bgar3]

Gary, the photo Id is in the woodcut description, mine is covered up right now or I would attach it. I sent you a couple pms.

[mrreality68]

Gary Great Card.

and many great questions

Interesting to see the answers that the forum can hopefully help with

[triwak]

Here's a scan of my Harper's Woodcut, showing Huff as the photographer.

[triwak]

The heads from the CDV were also used to create this photo disk, which I own. It's made of cardboard, surrounded by a metallic ring. About the size of a modern dollar coin. Looks like it might have been a pin of some kind, but I can't see any evidence of the pin on the back. Strange item, of which I've only ever heard of one surfacing.

[bgar3]

Ken, I have always liked your photo disc. There is a thread here some which has a list of various 1869 team images, I just can’t insert the link. Sorry.
Kevin, any changes or additions to your earlier research?

[Baseball Rarities]

Here is the link to the thread with Bruce’s list of different 1869 Cincinnati images.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...highlight=1869

Bruce - Unfortunately, I have not come up with anything to add to the subject.

[bgar3]

Kevin, thanks for posting the link and responding about updates. I am not surprised since your original research was so good. I guess I am also pleased since I have a Chadwick ad version.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Here is the link to the thread with Bruce’s list of different 1869 Cincinnati images.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...highlight=1869

Bruce - Unfortunately, I have not come up with anything to add to the subject.

Kevin- I have asked Bruce this same question. How many Red Stocking photographs, both in cdv and trade card form, do you estimate exist?
This question is also open to others and their educated estimations.

[drcy]

It wasn't me. That narrows it down a bit.

[Baseball Rarities]

Gary - I have not really tracked known specimens, but I will take a wild guess that there are ~ 20 trade cards with any of the known backs (many of these have trimmed mounts) and ~ 50 CDVs which are known with a variety of backs - blank, those with a roster, Peck and Snyder, Chadwick, Haney’s, etc.

Would love to know what others estimate.

[bgar3]

My estimate to Gary was not broken down but was about 50.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by bgar3

My estimate to Gary was not broken down but was about 50.

I said 40-50. I did a check of PSA and SGC population reports. They have graded 12 large (P & S) and 12 small (cdv). PSA lists 5 others without mentioning large or small. That brings us to 29 total graded examples. Of course, the accuracy of this information is questionable, but it gives us an estimate for all graded examples.
I also checked the total amount auctioned through REA and Heritage. These figures go back to 2004 for REA and 2005 for Heritage. There were 9 P & S examples and 8 cdvs auctioned including both REA and Heritage. I adjusted for two examples, one P & S and one cdv, that were auctioned twice.
I'm surprised that this sample gives us an almost equal amount of P & S and cdv cards. I would have thought the cdvs would have outpaced the P & S cards.