Greg Morris Cards - Grading

[deweyinthehall]

I've been snatching up some '68s lately in Greg Morris auctions and have a question for folks with more experience with him.

The images for his cards listed as VG-VGEX look like they're really EX-MT - I can't find any flaws in them.

Are these lower grades actually of a higher quality than most other cards called "VG-VGEX"?

[jchcollins]

Greg is one of the few larger dealers with a deserved reputation for very accurate grading. This is refreshing to see, as he is able to get good prices on raw cards in an arena where anymore - most dealers of that scale are moving only graded. But I digress.

Yes, if a VG-EX card looks like a 6, my assumption would be there is a hidden flaw somewhere and it is accurately graded with Greg. I've bought some higher grade commons raw from him in the past, and have always been very pleased with his grading when the cards arrive.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Greg is one of the few larger dealers with a deserved reputation for very accurate grading. This is refreshing to see, as he is able to get good prices on raw cards in an arena where anymore - most dealers of that scale are moving only graded. But I digress.

Yes, if a VG-EX card looks like a 6, my assumption would be there is a hidden flaw somewhere and it is accurately graded with Greg. I've bought some higher grade commons raw from him in the past, and have always been very pleased with his grading when the cards arrive.

Thanks! I purchased a few VG 1952 commons from him a short time ago and was struck by how clean and sharp they were - pretty much EX in my book, and I think most other dealers would have advertised them as EX.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Thanks! I purchased a few VG 1952 commons from him a short time ago and was struck by how clean and sharp they were - pretty much EX in my book, and I think most other dealers would have advertised them as EX.

My guess is that his MO is to be super conservative with grading raw cards. This is why you are seeing "VG" cards look better. So many long term dealers who were reputable in the 80's and even earlier - have lost the script anymore when it comes to grading. Kit Young advertises vintage stars on eBay on a regular basis that anymore are up to 2 grades wrong. Yeah, that might have been "EX" in 1985, but...

Good move IMO by Greg Morris. Another who is an extremely accurate grader at least (if not a great pricer...) is Dean's cards. Their grading is very much on-point from all I have seen.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

My guess is that his MO is to be super conservative with grading raw cards. This is why you are seeing "VG" cards look better. So many long term dealers who were reputable in the 80's and even earlier - have lost the script anymore when it comes to grading. Kit Young advertises vintage stars on eBay on a regular basis that anymore are up to 2 grades wrong. Yeah, that might have been "EX" in 1985, but...

Good move IMO by Greg Morris. Another who is an extremely accurate grader at least (if not a great pricer...) is Dean's cards. Their grading is very much on-point from all I have seen.

I've noticed the same thing about Kit Young - when I was younger I always saw his adds, but never was into mail order. Now that I'm able to collect more seriously, I went back to him because, well "king of the commons" and all. Saw a lot of cards which looked mis graded (and priced accordingly!)

[toppcat]

Greg Morris VG-EX grading is quite accurate IMO. Usually, if you can't see an obvious flaw, it's a "bend" that doesn't penetrate the other side of the card, or some other reasonably minor thing. They look nice in person and you can, of course, see such things once in hand vs a scan which doesn't always show such detail (through no fault of GMC). Given the slabbing backlog, dealers with conservative or even accurate raw grading will likely continue to do well vs the overgraders, as they should.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

I've noticed the same thing about Kit Young - when I was younger I always saw his adds, but never was into mail order. Now that I'm able to collect more seriously, I went back to him because, well "king of the commons" and all. Saw a lot of cards which looked mis graded (and priced accordingly!)

"King of the Commons" was actually Bill Henderson, but same type of dealer and they came out of the same era. Bill is either retired or dead; I went googling for him a while back out of sheer curiosity, but didn't find anything. Yeah, unfortunately the same type of stuff: Those guys got to where they would call anything EX, so long as there wasn't a noticeable crease. I get it based on how raw grading worked in the 1980's and earlier; this is the era I grew up in the hobby with. Unfortunately whether for right or wrong 25 years later, standards change. Yes, a card can be "below EX" with just corner problems and no creases. Happens all the time. Earlier this year, I was in a bit of a hurry and pulled the trigger on a '63 Koufax on eBay from Kit because it was centered. Advertised as "EX". The great centering aside, when the card arrived in the mail - it's probably a 3.5 at best. There is just too much corner wear on the full bleed borders for me to call it EX without lying to myself. Yes, my fault for being in a hurry - and it's still a nice enough card. But point being, this is how some of those guys grade still.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

My guess is that his MO is to be super conservative with grading raw cards. This is why you are seeing "VG" cards look better. So many long term dealers who were reputable in the 80's and even earlier - have lost the script anymore when it comes to grading. Kit Young advertises vintage stars on eBay on a regular basis that anymore are up to 2 grades wrong. Yeah, that might have been "EX" in 1985, but...

Good move IMO by Greg Morris. Another who is an extremely accurate grader at least (if not a great pricer...) is Dean's cards. Their grading is very much on-point from all I have seen.

For a seller that prices as high as Deans Cards does, every card should be graded right. I've only bought one card from them, a $5 card I got through COMC. It was described as EX but was really VG. Very dissapointing. If I can find it I will post it for you.

I am interested in what you bought from them. Based upon the ridiculous prices I see from them on I am curious where people have found something at a good value.

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[Frankish]

I've always been happy with my purchases from Greg. His standards are generally strict, which is great for discriminating buyers. I haven't sold through him, but am considering it.

With respect to Dean's, I've also found the cards very fairly graded. Sometimes I find cards there at market prices or that are just unavailable elsewhere. While I don't buy much, I'm glad the option is out there.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

I am interested in what you bought from them. Based upon the ridiculous prices I see from them on I am curious where people have found something at a good value.

I said I think they grade fairly, I was not commenting on their pricing - which I will agree is generally high. I bought a lot of '67 Topps commons from Dean on eBay, which I think was relatively fairly priced. I will admit in a moment of weakness during the pandemic, I bought a '67 Topps high number - Brooks Robinson, PSA 5 from Dean. I will admit to overpaying, he had the nicest version of the card in the grade I was looking for at the time and I let my exuberance get the best of me during a time I probably hadn't even left my house for 10 straight days, LOL...

[Gorditadogg]

Yep there is no shortage of ebay sellers who advertise their VG cards as EX.

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[Brianruns10]

Allow me to echo the other sentiments. Greg Morris has been a major source of raw cards for my 52 and 56 Topps sets, and I've been immensely pleased by the quality of what he offers. I agree, if anything he undergrades his cards, and I deeply respect this and his attention to honesty and fair dealing.