Another Nice PSA Graded Card - T207 Lewis

[Leon]

We might need to see the submission form on this monstrosity too. Check out the clarity of the front LOL....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1912-T207-B...59.m1431.l2649

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[ullmandds]

that doesn't look so good!

[Popcorn]

it’s the real deal.. was glued to a scrap book.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

it’s the real deal.. was glued to a scrap book.

so the listing says...compared to other authentic examples it looks pretty bad?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

it’s the real deal.. was glued to a scrap book.

seriously?

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by Leon

seriously?

yes it was discovered with about 30 others... only alteration is that it sat in water over night.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

yes it was discovered with about 30 others... only alteration is that it sat in water over night.

Looks like the front is glued to the back....could be the soaking I guess...

[oldeboo]

Woof. Looks like it was maybe soaked in gasoline then hit with a blow torch for a few seconds. Wonder how they determined it's a no emblem with that amount of alteration. Aren't the emblems simply an overprint that could be removed with that amount of damage? Meaning it wouldn't leave a void where it should be, could be wrong on that.

[steve B]

The emblems would be under the gloss, so mechanical removal would leave a dull spot, just like erasing something from a modern card.

Red also fades really easily, but the "Boston" on the uniform is ok, so maybe not faded.

What's more concerning is how ragged the printing of the border around the name is. The inks of the time weren't water soluble, so just water wouldn't do that.
If you look at the name boxes on other examples, they are lighter than the borders. On this one the color is uniform.

Overall, either a complete outlier, or very iffy.

[Leon]

Scrapbook pics...

[ullmandds]

So likely the combination of whatever glue was used...combined with whatever happened to these cards while in storage...combined with the chemicals/methods used to remove these cards caused the card to look this way. Definitely not just water!!!

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

So likely the combination of whatever glue was used...combined with whatever happened to these cards while in storage...combined with the chemicals/methods used to remove these cards caused the card to look this way. Definitely not just water!!!

Distilled water

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

So likely the combination of whatever glue was used...combined with whatever happened to these cards while in storage...combined with the chemicals/methods used to remove these cards caused the card to look this way. Definitely not just water!!!

Why is the front printing different than all of the others in the same album? That is my main concern. But again, I am definitely not sure of anything on that card.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Distilled water

chris...so did you remove these cards yourself?

[Popcorn]

Yes I did.. I do not know why they look different.

Leon I sent a couple more pics...

The lady I bought it from didn’t want very much for them so I gave her the sale price plus extra $$

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Yes I did.. I do not know why they look different.

Leon I sent a couple more pics...

The lady I bought it from didn’t want very much for them so I gave her the sale price plus extra $$

Always awesome when people do that.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Yes I did.. I do not know why they look different.

Leon I sent a couple more pics...

The lady I bought it from didn’t want very much for them so I gave her the sale price plus extra $$

Here ya go...

[insidethewrapper]

Are those before and after photos ? I would have left them alone if they look like that after soaking. Definitely not the same cards, border is different.

[sb1]

There were two Lewis cards on the sheet, one with emblem, one without.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by sb1

There were two Lewis cards on the sheet, one with emblem, one without.

Yes, the one “with” was cut in half unfortunately.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Yes, the one “with” was cut in half unfortunately.

With all of the pieces of the puzzle, and very little motive from the seller, I am thinking PSA got this one right.
A question though, does anyone have another T207 with print that looks like that? They should be out there somewhere, no?

[sb1]

Here are a few Lewis no emblems(actually a large percentage of the ones known). All are less sharp than the emblem counterpart.

[sb1]

I believe the one from the find has lost most or all of it's glossy coating, probably from decades of storage in a humid or damp environment and may have other environmental damage as well, fly specking, etc.

[Luke]

The font on the name sure is weird, but the back looks perfectly normal. For there to be funny business going on, it would have to be a reback using an already expensive card, then the doctor would have to risk sticking it to a sheet and risk soaking it. Very unlikely imo.

Also, cool to see the full sheet of cards. I own 9 of these and didn't know they all came from the same place.

[steve B]

I'm trying to think of how that would happen.

The closest I can get is maybe overinking along with too much water on the plate.

There's a similar common problem on an engraved stamp, but it was because of a change in both the pigment and the type of press all at once, and was from almost 40 years earlier. By the time T207s were a thing it had totally been sorted out and as far as I know wasn't ever a problem on lithographed items.

The idea that the glosscoat has been affected a lot might work too. If the gloss was printed on top of a still damp (ish) black, they might have combined and drifted as the gloss was affected, or the black slightly migrated into the gloss.

Overall a very strange outlier.

[frohme]

Curious if any of the recent winners of the raw cards would post their perceptions of the card(s) when they get them in hand. I got Gregg (two right, one down from the Lewis being discussed) and am curious to know what others think about their card.

Thanks
--
Mike.

[oldeboo]

Something else I found interesting about the raw cards...

All of the cards were either Broadleaf factory 25 or Anonymous factory 25 from what I could tell, unless I missed some.

It looks like a pretty original grouping. I don't think it would be a wild stretch to say that these were likely put together a long time ago. Is there not some debate on what packs the Anonymous factory 25 cards were inserted into? I think this is a really good clue that they were in Broadleaf packs. They either didn't have the logo at first or it was removed for some reason. Why would the old timer that was ripping down the smokes be smoking all kinds of brands?

Any thoughts on this from the T207 gurus?