1952 Bowman Salesman Sample vs Partial Production Sheet

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Picked up this partial sheet of uncut 1952 Bowman cards from ebay recently. The seller had them listed as a "salesman sample". And as I did my research, I confirmed that Bowman did use six card panels as salesman samples.

I had a brief exchange with the seller (who was top notch, a good communicator, and I would purchase from again), and I asked if they knew the provenance of the panel, and whether they could confirm it was a salesman sample, or just a partial production sheet. They said they got it in a large vintage purchase with several other uncut six card panels (a couple of them being duplicates) and since it was unlikely they would have duplicate partial production sheets, their best guess was that they were salesman samples.

So my question is do any of you know if there is a way to know if a panel of six uncut 1952 Bowman cards are salesman sample vs just a partial production sheet? Or maybe 1952 salesman samples really are just panels of a production sheet?

Either way it's a cool piece that I'm glad to add to my collection.

Interested to know if any of you have any thoughts or experience with 1952 Bowman salesman samples.

uncut.jpg

Uncutback.jpg

[Republicaninmass]

I know with the 52 topps 1st series, the back has an ad printed. Regardless what people will say

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

The best info I could find on early Bowman salesman strips were from this Topps Archives blog post:

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2010...les-force.html


There is a similar post regarding early Topps salesman strips (the Topps salesman strips definitely have characteristics unique from production cards).

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2010...p-show_07.html

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I know with the 52 topps 1st series, the back has an ad printed. Regardless what people will say

Ted-- are you referring to printed adverting backs versus ad stickers placed over the backs. I have a complete but cut 52 Salesman Sample with a printed back ( Olson/Hansen/Werle)

John-- will ask Dave Hornish, whose blog link you posted above, and Anthony Nex, my go to guy on Salesman Samples, to see if they can offer you any input. Both post here on 54

[Griffins]

Bowman did not utilize salesman samples until 1954
There are 53 Bowman strips listed as salesman samples, but they are not.
I can post more later when I’m at a computer, but Bowman issues them in 54-55, Topps ‘52-‘67, and Fleer in 59. Playball backstamped individual cards in ‘39 and those would fit the criteria for salesman samples as well

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Ted-- are you referring to printed adverting backs versus ad stickers placed over the backs. I have a complete but cut 52 Salesman Sample with a printed back ( Olson/Hansen/Werle)

John-- will ask Dave Hornish, whose blog link you posted above, and Anthony Nex, my go to guy on Salesman Samples, to see if they can offer you any input. Both post here on 54

Al, I appreciate that, thanks!

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Ted-- are you referring to printed adverting backs versus ad stickers placed over the backs. I have a complete but cut 52 Salesman Sample with a printed back ( Olson/Hansen/Werle)

John-- will ask Dave Hornish, whose blog link you posted above, and Anthony Nex, my go to guy on Salesman Samples, to see if they can offer you any input. Both post here on 54

Hi Al, does your have what looks like a torn address label on the back? I had seen one 3rd series and scoffed at SGC labeling it as a sample. It just looked like a 3 card panel, with the remnants of a label. I have not, or dont remember seeing a first series panel without the ad

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[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Bowman did not utilize salesman samples until 1954
There are 53 Bowman strips listed as salesman samples, but they are not.
I can post more later when I’m at a computer, but Bowman issues them in 54-55, Topps ‘52-‘67, and Fleer in 59. Playball backstamped individual cards in ‘39 and those would fit the criteria for salesman samples as well

Anthony, that's interesting info. Thank you.

So, are you saying that the six card 1952 Bowman panel that accompanied the salesman letter in the Topps Archives blog post (linked above) is likely indistinguishable from a cut production sheet...because those samples likely WERE cut from production sheets?

[Republicaninmass]

Now I seem to remember in an auction years ago that had some single cards with 3 parts of stickers on them, as well as OPC. I was skeptical as I had never seen those, since or before that auction

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[toppcat]

Three card Topps and Bowman strips have been around for a long time. I recall seeing them in the early 80's in bigger shops and at shows. Their true origin is not necessarily known, some may have been cut to use a promos other possibly after the fact from sheets. I have several now, including a 53 Bowman color. But the pre-54 Bowman's would almost certainly cut from production sheets when used as sales tools.

Topps were promotional geniuses-their sales and PR groups were constantly coming up with gimmicks, contests and incentives far beyond anything Bowman was doing.

[Griffins]

In my opinion, in order to be a salesman sample, the material must contain ad copy. Any product without ad copy is just a product sample, but not intended to be used as a sales piece- that is just incidental. As you'll see below, all salesman samples contain copy directed at retailers, touting sales

The first usage of product as a collateral sales piece by Bowman was in 1954. Prior to that they used regular product with an accompanying letter.



They continued this practice in 1955


They didn't issue them in '53 or before, although 3 card panels are found on occasion. As these follow the common format (most, but not all, salesman samples issued by Topps and Bowman were 3 card panels) they are occasionally called salesman samples, but there is no evidence they were used as that and contain no ad copy. One dealer told me he thought they were salesman samples because the cards contained were in sequential order, but that is how '53 Bowman was printed, as evidenced by the full sheet below




Topps first issued salesman samples as a sales tool in 1952


Topps continued to issue baseball salesman samples thru 1967.
For the most part these were 3 card panels, but 4 card panels were created in 1956 to go along with a 3 card panel.

In 1960 Topps issued a 3 card panel along with a 8 card panel that contained salescopy on card stock. But this wasn't a regular sample with ad copy, it was blank backed and I would consider it a point of purchase (POP in the ad business) display. It announces the arrival of the new series of cards, but nothing about sales and was directed at the consumer, not the retailer.


A similar POP display was issued in '62.

In 1955 Topps issued a salesman sample with an attached '55 Doubleheader. They are often found with the Doubleheader removed, but all originally had them



A serious run up in prices on salesman samples occurred around '11-'15, as several collectors were trying to put a complete run of these together. Prices have dropped back down considerably, aided by a few finds flooding the market, most notably with '54 and '66 samples. During this time any 3 card panel was called a salesman sample in an attempt to realize a high price. I consigned a '49 Leaf boxing 3 card panel to an auction house as an uncut strip- they instead called it a salesman sample with no evidence as such and refused to correct the copy. '53 Bowman and other 3 card strips continue to be identified as salesman samples on ebay when they were in fact not ever used or issued as such.

Topps issued salesman samples for their football cards as well, I suspect (but do not have evidence of) those paralleled the years issued for baseball.

Fleer issued salesman samples for their '59 Ted Williams set, and a non sport set created that year (can't recall which one, Stooges maybe?) but I have never seen one for other years. '60 Fleer baseball 3 card strips are very common, and I've got a '63 Fleer 3 card strip (2 full sets of 3 card strips were offered by H&S a few years ago) but none of these, while having fully printed backs, have any ad copy; they are just regular uncut strips.

Here's a small image of each year (minus '53 which I don't own, but is similar to '52 and '54) of Topps salesman samples. As you can see Topps began with stickers over the product (as did Bowman both years) and got a lot more sophisticated on back printing later in the run.

[Griffins]

[Griffins]

[ALR-bishop]

Great stuff Anthony. I am trying to play catch up on these. Just doing Topps but still need a couple. Thanks for posting all that

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Dave and Anthony, this is exactly the info I was interested in. Thanks for your insights and helping clarify some information around the early 50's salesman samples (and for providing cool scans).

I really appreciate it!

[whiteymet]

Here are a few more. One Bowman one Topps

[Griffins]

Very nice Fred!

[HRBAKER]

Great stuff guys!

I have two '52 Topps cut from a panel (), Al Rosen and Johnny Bucha - any idea who the other player was on the panel?

Jeff

[Griffins]

It should follow the standard sheet printing. Dave do you have a scan of the sheet with Rosen?

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Griffins

It should follow the standard sheet printing. Dave do you have a scan of the sheet with Rosen?

I don't, although I have others from the first series on partials. Just not his row. I think they were all taken from press sheets or at least final proofs. Those partial sheets in the famous 1952 Woolwoorth's picture must have come from the same setup as well.

I am surprised you didn't show the mixed breed 55 Bowman samples:

[Griffins]

I left a lot out, figured I’d bogarted the thread enough

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by toppcat

I am surprised you didn't show the mixed breed 55 Bowman samples:

Woah...do those upside down TV's have lighter color wood? That's super interesting. My guess is that those were just prototypes?

[Griffins]

no, Bowman changed color wood from lighter to darker in the series. The salesman sample Dave posted (which is one of mine) bridges both series.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Great stuff guys!

I have two '52 Topps cut from a panel (), Al Rosen and Johnny Bucha - any idea who the other player was on the panel?

Jeff

Is the back the ad for "giant sized cards" gray and green?

I'm still.looking for a left side I believe as my 2 have also been cut!

[ValKehl]

Pete Runnels was my favorite player when I was a kid. I have one Topps salesman's sample with Runnels on it for the 1957 cards. I would love to acquire another salesman's sample, Topps or Bowman, which includes Runnels. Does anyone know of any others that exist?

My only other salesman's sample is for Topps 1965 cards, which I'd be willing to part with in a deal for one with Runnels.