Old Judge label question

[ramram]

I was looking through some of my old photos of cards i owned 15-20 years ago and came across this one of the St. Louis White's T.C. Nicholson. It had the odd label of "B.8" in front of his name. I'm assuming this was possibly for "Batting 8th" but that's kind of odd on a photo card. He also has it on his two player card but I don't know that it appears any where else in the set. Does anybody else ever remember seeing this on any other Old Judge cards?

Rob M

old judge nicholson.jpg

[Fred]

Dang Rob, can't see anything in that pic... yeah, it's a B. 8, I think it meant he was a fisherman or something like that.... ok, I think I did recall hearing it was his position in the batting order... gotta bigger scan?

[RCMcKenzie]

Poses 3 and 4 in the oj book show the "b. 8" caption. I have some players that say "Capt.". Declaring that they bat 8th is kinda odd, almost a gratuitous slam, unless 8th was considered 2nd clean-up. Maybe some sort of printer's notation?

[Joe_G.]

Hello Rob,

This notation is found on quite a few of the 1888 Fa cards of the St. Louis Whites as follows:

B.5 = Staley
B.6 = Cantz
B.7 = Nyce
B.8 = T.C. Nicholoson
B.9 = Alcott
B.10 = Burch
B.12 = Kenyon
B.13 = Hines
B.14 = Sproat
B.15 = Loftus

[ramram]

Unfortunately that’s as big of a photo I have from 17 years ago.

So Joe, that means it has nothing to do with a batting order...so what do you think they stand for??

Rob

[Joe_G.]

Rob, I don't believe the numbering had to do with batting order but instead was likely carried over from the negative to the card. Many of the surviving glass plate negatives have tape on them from the original photographer that identifies the players name and team. This piece of tape would also often include a number as a way of indexing/tracking the negatives. Gray Studio (many of the 1887 photos) numbered each player photographed, all Stump Weidman's, for example, are number 1846. Another studio, Gilbert & Bacon, numbered the Bobby Mathews example below as C.305. I suspect the Old Judge card maker accidently included these numbers in the players nameplate on the St. Louis Whites cards while comprising the St. Louis Whites composite (sheet of cards). The mistake was likely noticed and not repeated but also not corrected.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Fred

Dang Rob, can't see anything in that pic... yeah, it's a B. 8, I think it meant he was a fisherman or something like that.... ok, I think I did recall hearing it was his position in the batting order... gotta bigger scan?

Can’t let a great response about being a fisherman go unnoticed and unappreciated by at least 1 person.

[prewinter]

Nicholson batted leadoff in all of the Whites games, so it can't be batting order.

Besides the Whites players listed as B5 through B15 (excepting B11), the following players were with the Whites that spring:
Tug Arundel (who got into town late in April after being released from Indianapolis, with whom he is pictured in the set), Jake Beckley, Jack Crooks, Tom Dolan (photographed in a Whites uniform, but identified with the Browns - he went with the Browns on their road trip to Memphis and New Orleans in April, but was always intended to be with the Whites once the season started), Joe Herr, and Jerry McCormick. Five players, five 'missing' numbers (ignoring Arundel, who likely was signed after the photos were taken).

One other note about the timing of the photos. There was a player in camp that spring with the Whites named F.B Weikart. He played in a couple of games and then was released by April 6, when he signed with Houston. He is not included in the set at all, which makes me think he was never photographed. That would set the date for the photos in April of 1888. Also, there is some suggestions in the local papers that Sproat was late to camp because of illness. He didn't pitch at all until the Whites second game of the season, on May 1. This would be another indication that the photos weren't taken until the middle of April. Arundel didn't arrive in St. Louis until late April, and Somers and McCormick were released on May 4. I would say the photos were taken sometime in the two or so weeks between April 6 and about April 24, when Arundel was signed.

The Old Judge set got me really interested in the Whites and the Western Association of 1888. I wish I could afford some of their cards.

[oldjudge]

Good detective work Paul. Very interesting.

[ramram]

Great info Paul.

Do you know who their photographer was?

Rob M

Edited to add - Never mind, Joe G already covered it - Gray Studios