Decision SP Jeter or what other card

[Klrdds]

I know people post what if and what would you do threads on this site so here comes my first one .
Say you have $5000.00 dollars to spend . Would you buy a 1933 Goudey Ruth at the appropriate PSA grade in buyable condition or a 1993 U D SP Derek Jeter graded at a PSA 9 ( this is based on pricing research ).
Since the Ruth card is 86 years old and one must assume that there won't be a major dumping of this card on the market and it's value has probably stabilized ( except for the PSA 8 thru 10s which will continue to rise ) versus the Jeter card which has risen rapidly in the PSA 9 & 10 grades but who knows how many will appear in the market after his election and what could happen to the PSA 9 & 10s value . Will the Jeter card in PSA 9 and 10 increase , stabilize , or drop in its value ?
I know one can't predict the future but this is a large forum with many people in many different geographical areas , backgrounds , and , of course , respected opinions .

[Bored5000]

IMO, Babe Ruth vs. anyone else is a no brainer. Fifty years from now or 100 years from now, Ruth will still be the most famous name in sports. Go with Ruth.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

IMO, Babe Ruth vs. anyone else is a no brainer. Fifty years from now or 100 years from now, Ruth will still be the most famous name in sports. Go with Ruth.

Certainly Babe Ruth v. Derek Jeter is.

If the only question is which card will go up more, then really who on earth knows, it depends on future generations of collectors and whether they still want the prewar cards.

Maybe the best buy out there is a relatively hard to find Trout like the Diamond Update, given his upside to be one of the top handful of players ever.

[Arazi4442]

I'm with Eddie on this one. All things being equal, I would always go with the Ruth.

People think Jeter's HOF will boost his value, but anyone willing to spend $5K on this card (not me) already knows that. I don't see a big jump, short term or long term.

The big question, for me, would be the provenance of the card. Both are very "in demand" cards and susceptible to the trimming, etc. crap going on in our hobby.

No matter what you buy, do your homework on either of these. The very last thing you want is to drop that amount of money and later realize you've bought a trimmed/recolored/altered card.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Certainly Babe Ruth v. Derek Jeter is.

If the only question is which card will go up more, then really who on earth knows, it depends on future generations of collectors and whether they still want the prewar cards.

Maybe the best buy out there is a relatively hard to find Trout like the Diamond Update, given his upside to be one of the top handful of players ever.

I completely understand what you are saying about the best buy possibly being an obscure Trout card. But maybe the best buy from a purely financial standpoint isn't even baseball. Ruth, Jeter and Trout aren't flying under anyone's radar.

I always like reading David Peck's posts on here about his Wrestling All-Stars collection and its explosion in value in recent years. Peck started scooping up those cards when they were worth virtually nothing, and a high-grade Hulk Hogan Wrestling All-Stars card could be had for $50. Who would have ever thought those cards would explode the way they have? I don't even understand what Magic the Gathering and Pokemon cards are, so I really don't get why some of them now sell for five figures at auction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I completely understand what you are saying about the best buy possibly being an obscure Trout card. But maybe the best buy from a purely financial standpoint isn't even baseball. Ruth, Jeter and Trout aren't flying under anyone's radar.

I always like reading David Peck's posts on here about his Wrestling All-Stars collection and its explosion in value in recent years. Peck started scooping up those cards when they were worth virtually nothing, and a high-grade Hulk Hogan Wrestling All-Stars card could be had for $50. Who would have ever thought those cards would explode the way they have?

Given the popularity among the general public of golf, the fact that Jack Nicklaus is the best golfer of all time by a near consensus, and the fact that he has only two issues that could be considered early cards, both of which are pretty hard to find especially the 1973 Panini -- I don't understand why those cards aren't worth a hell of a lot more.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Given the popularity among the general public of golf, the fact that Jack Nicklaus is the best golfer of all time by a near consensus, and the fact that he has only two issues that could be considered early cards, both of which are pretty hard to find especially the 1973 Panini -- I don't understand why those cards aren't worth a hell of a lot more.

I never really thought about Nicklaus being undervalued, but that's because he hasn't been someone whose cards I have followed much. I know baseball will always be king when it comes to cards, but along your point about Nicklaus, I have always been amazed at how cheap Marilyn Monroe's cards are. Maybe that is because she has a ton of foreign issue cards, but her cards just seem so cheap for how iconic a name she is. She also has the intrigue of dying young. Her signed checks already sell for well into four figures.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I never really thought about Nicklaus being undervalued, but that's because he hasn't been someone whose cards I have followed much. I know baseball will always be king when it comes to cards, but along your point about Nicklaus, I have always been amazed at how cheap Marilyn Monroe's cards are. Maybe that is because she has a ton of foreign issue cards, but her cards just seem so cheap for how iconic a name she is. Her signed checks already sell for well into four figures.

1. Nonsports is almost uniformly cheap, across the board.
2. As you suggest, there really are a huge number of MM cards. Here are two of my favorites.

[Exhibitman]

If you are approaching this financially, forget about anything except baseball; all the rest are piss-thin markets. Speaking as a boxing collector, trust me on that. You do not want to be in a collectible that has only a handful of interested parties unless you are in there so cheap that it doesn't matter. The only exceptions are probably a 1965 Namath, a Tom Brady RC, the Star or Fleer Jordan RCs and LeBron's RCs. Also the Jim Brown RC, the Russell and Chamberlain and Alcindor and perhaps Dr. J RCs, the Magic-Bird RC, the Gretzky RC, the Orr RC, and maybe Howe and Hull. Maybe also the Ali RC , if we can agree on which it is. Those have transcendent appeal. The rest are for specialists.

As for the original question, Ruth is a much better answer than Jeter. I do not believe that the abundant Jeter RC will do a ton more long term; remember how nuts Ryan pricing was in anticipation of his election. Ruth has steadily appreciated too. Check VCP on his 33 Goudey.

Now, if it was my money and the goal was financial appreciation I'd spread it around a core of rookies in the modern era, guys like Gerrit Cole or Altuve. Trout is blazing hot right now, so i'd watch it with him, but I think the non-2011 Topps Update RCs and the pre-RCs are reasonable values. I'd plunk a grand or so into his 2011 Bowman cards. As the TU prices out of range of most collectors these should go up. I'd also try to pick up some blue chip HOFers like Williams, Aaron, Musial, Gehrig, etc. A nice play might also be Bonds: if he makes the HOF his cards, which are really cold and have been for a while should see a nice punch upwards.

All of which is academic: if you want to make money buy a stock or something. Cards have less liquidity, relatively large spreads between bid (retail) and ask (selling to a dealer), and big financial barriers to exit (selling fees are at least 13% and go up from there), plus unfavorable tax treatment relative to other investments if held for more than a year. Buy these because you enjoy owning them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree with much of what Adam says but I think with a huge influx of Asian collectors, BKB is a major market now and certainly not thin.

[RCMcKenzie]

Babe Ruth and Marilyn Monroe are much more famous than Derek Jeter. Jeter is a generational hero like Rocco Colavito.

Next time you're looking at a prewar card on Probstein, click "see all auctions" and see how much all that stuff sells for, the Jayson Tatum and Mitch Trubisky and all that.

If your sell point is 10 years, I say Jeter. In 200 years, people will still know about Ruth and Monroe, they will have forgotten Derek Jeter and Jayson Tatum.

[Foo3112]

Ruth over Jeter all day except that buying Jeter at this moment seems like a much smarter idea. It's a fact that Derek Jeter SP cards (and all in general) are about to get a big bump in January as he gets into the HOF. So why not buy the Jeter and then sell off in January and use the original $5000 plus whatever profit you made and put that total into the Babe Ruth card you want?

That would be the best way to stretch out your money for the highest quality Ruth card when it comes time to purchase.

[Republicaninmass]

I'd expect a big SELL OFF, or at least a glut of listings of Jeter in January, as prices have been going up at quite a large percentage the past year.

I can't imagine PC collectors not realizing his SP card is the best one, and nobody is forgetting he will be elected end of Jan 2020. There may be some outlier cards that will pick up steam.

I picked up a low grade 33 goudey Ruth #181 this week as it's always been my favorite pose. Probably will sell it next year, but suffice to say I owned one

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I'd expect a big SELL OFF, or at least a glut of listings of Jeter in January, as prices have been going up at quite a large percentage the past year.

I can't imagine PC collectors not realizing his SP card is the best one, and nobody is forgetting he will be elected end of Jan 2020. There may be some outlier cards that will pick up steam.

I picked up a low grade 33 goudey Ruth #181 this week as it's always been my favorite pose. Probably will sell it next year, but suffice to say I owned one

I agree with Ted. There is always a big bmp in prices when HOFer retires and when they actually get into the HOF. Now would be a horrible time to buy a Jeter. If that is the card you want as a collector give it a year and they will be cheaper.

Ted nice pick up on the Ruth. I have done that with many many high end/rare cards, I call it renting a card.

[Republicaninmass]

Hi Ben! We got snow here today!


Anyhow, a quick browse of VCP shows red arrows for psa 5.5 6, 6.5, 7, 8, 8.5, and 9


Interpret that how you want

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Hi Ben! We got snow here today!


Anyhow, a quick browse of VCP shows red arrows for psa 5.5 6, 6.5, 7, 8, 8.5, and 9


Interpret that how you want

What are red arrows, I am a cheap ass that uses the completed eBay listings for free.

Ted I hope it is just snow. We got rain, then sleet, then snow, then more rain, and then some more snow on top of everything a couple days ago. The roads are like a ice skating rink.

[Republicaninmass]

It's like the old Beckett days, red arrow signals sold prices have headed lower.

Heavier snow now, turning to ice

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[bigfanNY]

Like a few other seasoned collectors mentioned there are a number of Jeter inserts and parallels that cost alot less and in a year or two in the right auction should do well. I am not 5k Jeter guy But I have been collecting Jeter since 95 and have a ton of cards for my personal collection. My rarest card is a 1998 topps test issue. Rare dose not always equal valuable. Last week I picked up a 2013 Heritage giant insert of Jeter that I have been looking for since it was issued.
Spend some time look at popular insert refractor or Parallel sets with a Jeter maybe even buy some raw and get them graded. Trust me it will be fun. And might just pay off.
J

[the 'stache]

Ruth is timeless. Jeter is overrated as far as (future) Hall of Famers go. Ruth's card is virtually guaranteed not to go down, and will continue to appreciate in value. Can the same be said about Jeter's card? Nope.

I would buy the Ruth every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I agree with much of what Adam says but I think with a huge influx of Asian collectors, BKB is a major market now and certainly not thin.

100% agree on this... I actually think the cards with the most upside are 80's BKB rookies. I think 20 years from now people will be shocked to see how much Olajuwon, Malone, Thomas and even Pippen and Rodman rookies are going for. Perhaps my craziest prediction with any "investment" ever but I expect to sell these cards that I have acquired for well above $1,000 each and I've bought most of them over the past few years for well under $100 (most in the 8-9 area). The 86-87 Fleer set is a no-brainer IMO with nothing but upside.

As for the Jeter vs Ruth it's kind of like buying one of the FANG stocks vs an industrial megacap stock. You'd be gambling on the Jeter but investing with the Ruth. Then again, if you're just a hobby purist (which I wish all of us fell in that camp) then just buy whatever makes you happy.

[AGuinness]

Excellent thread. I agree with Adam and Peter, although the basketball side of things has a caveat, I think. It was mentioned elsewhere on this board at some recent point, but the question is: will the influx of Asian collectors lead to increased demand of vintage basketball? It's tough enough at times to figure out how demand will shift on a single issue, but when trying to figure out larger trends due to a continent and the various cultures within it, it's a lot of guess work. Perhaps the new collectors will find appreciation in Dr. J, Wilt, etc., but there's no guarantee they will.
And for this situation, I would also prefer to spread the money around to a variety of cards if it were my choice. But strictly Jeter vs Babe, I would go Babe.

[RCMcKenzie]

What about Roberto Alomar? Where is his $100,000 junk wax card?

Alomar's stats are almost a dead ringer for Jeter's.

[Gaspard]

I regret not buying the psa 10 Jeter sp...It was flying around the new for a grand...I was laughing way back then!!!


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[Bretsky]

If I had 5k to spend on a card I would buy back my Trout BC Auto 1st card that I let go for a third the price. Or a Shoeless Joe card.

[Gaspard]

Babe Ruth is the way to go.


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[Gaspard]

The jeter sp 10 is super rare, I’d go with a nice 7+


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[packs]

Jeter is popular today, but what about in 40 years? Just my opinion but he'll never be on Ruth's level with people who didn't see him play. Even for the people who saw him play it's still hard to understand how he's achieved this status.

[jchcollins]

Ruth was a singular and revolutionary figure in the early history of the game. Jeter even twice as good as he was would not come close to equaling that, so I’m not sure why the comparison there. The Jeter SP is a better investment in modern than the Trout Update, if for no other reason the overall production numbers and condition sensitivity of the card. But any SP Jeter that’s not a PSA 10 is going to pale in comparison to a mid-grade ‘33 Goudey Ruth. I think much of that is self evident, or at least should be.

On the other hand sorry, but for whoever compared Jeter to Rocky Colavito, that is asinine. Due respect to Rocky, but he’s not a Hall of Famer, much less the first Yankee with 3K hits who also happened to be a 14x All-Star, 5x World Champion, and world-renowned leader of his team.

[packs]

If you're investing in Trout it's gotta be the Bowman Rookie Auto and not the Update.

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

On the other hand sorry, but for whoever compared Jeter to Rocky Colavito, that is asinine. Due respect to Rocky, but he’s not a Hall of Famer, much less the first Yankee with 3K hits who also happened to be a 14x All-Star, 5x World Champion, and world-renowned leader of his team.

Colavito was my Dad's generation. I never saw him play. My dad and his friends go on about the great Rocco Colavito and I suspect that's what's going to happen to Jeter. Jeter's not well known in East Texas right now as it is.

Career OPS OPS+

Colavito .848 132
Jeter .817 115
Ruth 1.164 206

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Colavito was my Dad's generation. I never saw him play. My dad and his friends go on about the great Rocco Colavito and I suspect that's what's going to happen to Jeter. Jeter's not well known in East Texas right now as it is.



Career OPS OPS+



Colavito .848 132

Jeter .817 115

Ruth 1.164 206

I do not mean to disparage Rocky Colavito. I know he’s a borderline HOF’er, and as a kid growing up in the 1980’s interested in baseball after he retired, I knew who he was.

The New York factor (which is not necessarily fair, but is a thing) aside - Jeter was a career .310 hitter with more than 3400 hits., ~70 career WAR. Colavito was a career .266 hitter with less than 1800 hits, 44 career WAR. I do not think they are in the same category.


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