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#1
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PWCC Statement on Recent Card Trimming Concerns
We are obviously very aware of the issues surrounding the cards submitted to us by Gary Moser. First, we want to apologize to all those who have been affected by the purchasing of trimmed or altered cards. We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light and this information makes its way to our customers. We understand that we are responsible for our part in this mess and will do all that we can to make it right in connection with Moser-submitted cards as well as other submitters who may have altered cards of which we auctioned. We understand how difficult it is to be patient through this process but we are working through this as quickly as we can at the direction of counsel and the appropriate authorities. Finally, in response to these recent findings, we are no longer selling any Moser-submitted cards.
We are very sorry for the trouble that has occurred and will work to regain your trust. |
#2
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Well that’s a start.
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#3
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Rhetorical question, but why have you been selling them for at least a decade?
Relatedly, I guess you lied two years ago when you told me and Leon that Gary had pretty much retired. According to what you told us, he only "graded" a card "once in a while." Ha.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 03:47 PM. |
#4
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and another question....
Quote:
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#5
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Do you believe anything this man says at this point?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#6
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nope
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#7
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I think this line alone makes it pretty clear how quickly this is all moving.
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#8
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Ouch. You said you would do this 3 weeks ago but then the scam continues. Why is that? You have a long history of blowing smoke up peoples a***
While I appreciate what you are trying to do, I gave you a pass 3 weeks ago. Then you let it continue until your are pretty much forced to just today? Personally, I hope you get sued by PSA. I will reserve the right to change my opinion of you but as for now, you are neck deep in quicksand my handsome friend and the play stands as called on the field. Good Luck Brent Mastro. Last edited by Fuddjcal; 06-02-2019 at 03:53 PM. |
#9
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Sounds like they are getting ready to throw Moser under the bus and save their own asses.
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#10
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Sounds like an attorney has been hired.
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#11
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And PSA. I was sort of wondering who would be sacrificed to keep them going. My money was on some poor new hire grader - yet another reason why I almost never bet on anything. (Of course, it's not over yet... )
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#12
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Vault
Wondering how many people are thinking it might me a good idea to empty the “vault” about now...
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#13
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Where’s the guy who was laying 4:1?
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#14
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Quote:
Do you accept consignments from Gary Moser? - "Yes" Are there any Moser consigned cards in the current auction? Did you submit cards to any TPGs on behalf of Gary Moser? Did you accept bids from Gary Moser? If so, did you ever cross check items Gary Moser won against items he consigned? Did you buy cards on your account, and then resell them in your own auctions? If so, was that disclosed in the auctions? This is a good start, I reserve the right to ask additional follow ups depending on the answers. |
#15
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Good start with those questions. Not sure we can handle the truth but I think we know what it is
__________________
Seeking Type 1 photos especially Ruth I still love the hobby |
#16
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[QUOTE=Brent Huigens; We are not disappearing or burying our heads in the sand about this. Next, we are presently working with both PSA and law enforcement to ensure that all affected cards are brought to light...[/QUOTE]
1. “Presently Working with PSA”... That is hardly new news. You’ve been “working” with them for a long time. 2. “Ensure all affected cards are brought to light”... What a joke! It’s a tad late for that. The virus has spread way beyond PWCC’s control or any means that law enforcement can employ to contain them all. They are in circulation now, and there are hundreds (if not thousands) of bogus cards in PSA slabs that will never be fully accounted for. Unless PSA goes down with you, these cards will continue to be sold and traded at a premium, to unknowing innocent victims. You let the cat out of the bag, and it is never coming back in. |
#17
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Quote:
Last edited by BengoughingForAwhile; 06-02-2019 at 05:14 PM. |
#18
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This entire situation looks incredibly dire.
__________________
WTB: Autographed 1984 USFL Reggie White, 1955 Len Ford, 1986 Wilber Marshall, 1957 Johnny Unitas |
#19
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What about the PSA 6.5, T206 Jennings AB 460 that is in your current auction. That used to sit in a PSA 4 case and they have confirmed on blowout that it has been altered (the mark under his armpit) and based on another thread it appears it is a Moser card; at least it was submitted by moser to PSA after it was altered.
Let’s Start by removing the cards in your current auction that are known to be altered and/or ”Mosered” |
#20
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Cancel the entire auction, and sell your vaults to cover the losses.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#21
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I don't know. It feels, to me, that they are partnering up with PSA as they work with law enforcement together. They will claim ignorance to the whole thing and blame Moser for doing all the fraud on his own. Like you, I almost never bet on anything though.
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#22
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Quote:
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#23
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They do not appear to have published their apology on the PSA website. I haven't been able to find any posts from them in the Collectors Universe forum. That forum overall is much less active than here or Blowout, but I'm pretty sure they've posted there before. Maybe I'm just missing it, if someone can find it let me know and I'll revise this. I don't see any PWCC banners anywhere on the PSA site. Pretty sure they used to be there. I don't see any PWCC banners on the VCP site, or in the "Auction want list" section on the home page. Pretty sure they used to be there. |
#24
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I imagine eBay made them take down the banners this weekend. Apparently they couldn’t wait until July 4th weekend to do it.
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#25
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Quote:
:d:d:d |
#26
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Too late
__________________
People are crazy and times are strange, I used to care but things have changed -Dylan |
#27
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__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#28
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Like a kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar...
Of course you are sorry, you got caught. Own it... Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk |
#29
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It's funny reading this thread with the PWCC banner showing up at the top.
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#30
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The list
Quote:
Cory Weiser |
#31
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"WE'RE GONNA NEED A BIGGER LIST!" CaptainSpaulding on BO says that he has another 16 submissions tied to this scandal.
Brent, how do you like my new PSA slogan: "IN ON IT OR IMPOTENT?"
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#32
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Quote:
Why not just let bygones be bygones and we'll all get along, eh?
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 05:57 PM. |
#33
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Quote:
1) Which law enforcement agency was contacted? Did PWCC contact this agency? 2) When was it contacted or a case opened? Who's the name of the individual on the case? 3) Is there any proof of this? My main concern is that PWCC didn't look over these cards and have questions before auction? What auction house doesn't inspect the items to a) make sure they're not stolen and b) not damaged or altered prior? An investigator who has some knowledge of the Hobby and auction houses and grading companies are going to have some questions that might be very difficult for PWCC to answer. This also opens up legitimate concerns about the practices of PSA. |
#34
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Brent states that he personally inspects EVERY CARD VALUED AT $250 OR OVER to consider them for his stickers.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#35
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Quote:
The flat out lie to me (and Leon) that Moser was essentially out of the business two or three years ago really infuriates me, in case you can't tell.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 06:02 PM. |
#36
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Quote:
With everything else that has happened to this point, why would anyone believe the completeness of any list PWCC releases? Without proper validation, which would require PWCC data, PSA data (possibly other TPGs) and eBay data, there's no way to have any confidence. None of this even addresses whether this is isolated to this single individual, or if there are other people or elements involved. There is zero trust right now, another "statement" or list isn't going to change that. They have not been forthcoming in the past, no one should expect them be now. Said differently, it's always "short". |
#37
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Quote:
__________________
WTB: Autographed 1984 USFL Reggie White, 1955 Len Ford, 1986 Wilber Marshall, 1957 Johnny Unitas |
#38
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Brent has been fencing cards for up to 10 different revealed scammers. I would like to see all of those on the list too (PSA,BGS). I would like those companies to COMPLETELY DECERTIFY ALL THOSE NUMBERS.
You don't get what you don't ask for.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#39
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Quote:
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#40
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You might blow up a few collections. Or more than a few.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#41
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Collateral Damage; you think everyone will know at that point? All collectors will know.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#42
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A lot of collectors are just in it for the money and ego though, at the high end of things. Not all of course.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#43
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PSA has a very tough needle to thread, on the one hand the people who hate altered cards and are livid are going to demand major change; on the other hand people with major bucks tied up in collections may resist that change if it means taking away some of their high grade cards.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#44
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They can turn them in now or see their value plummet in 6 months.
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#45
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I think ultimately for many of these folks when push comes to shove the flip is going to trump the card.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#46
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__________________
R0b G0u13t |
#47
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Wow those guys on the PSA board are clueless. They've read about 3 total posts and not the 20+ threads on this scam and are defending PWCC... but when the place is moderated the way it's moderated, no surprise.
"They feed me dirt and keep me in the dark!"
__________________
-- PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head PSA: Regularly Get Cheated BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern SGC: Closed auto authentication business JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC Oh, what a difference a year makes. |
#48
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Happens here all the time John. People intentionally don't inform themselves, then pontificate.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#49
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I may be in the minority, but I hope Brent / PSA rebounds from this and criminal charges will be pressed on the card docs. People will be angry if this is the result because of the smoking gun from culpability, but I hope the hobby burns through this hot topic we are facing. punitive consequences will be defined and the maturity of our hobby’s use of tech/social media (thanks to our “super sleuths”) will act as a deterrent and make us stronger from this.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree with the majority, but would be happy with realistic expectations. Last edited by joshuanip; 06-02-2019 at 06:48 PM. |
#50
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All depends......
Quote:
How many posts have there been that the net54 community is only a very small subset of the collecting community, and that what is common knowledge on this Board is not generally known outside it. Well, change that reality and then there might (finally) be the real change so many of us are clamoring for. |
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