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  #1  
Old 12-18-2018, 08:35 AM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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Default What is the difference between BGS and BCCG?

What is the difference between BGS and BCCG? Did they just change their name and why? These effin acronyms are so ridiculous and is there a difference between a BCCG 9 to a PSA 7? Does PSA crack these stupid BCCG plastic containers, regrade on it's own merit and put back into their own stupid holder? Pretty new to all the grading stuff but want to buy graded if at all, due to fakes everywhere?

Should one just steer clear of BCCG, are they a scam? would you have any BCCG in your collection or were they shitty at grading and no one wants them

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Fuddjcal View Post
What is the difference between BGS and BCCG? Did they just change their name and why? These effin acronyms are so ridiculous and is there a difference between a BCCG 9 to a PSA 7? Does PSA crack these stupid BCCG plastic containers, regrade on it's own merit and put back into their own stupid holder? Pretty new to all the grading stuff but want to buy graded if at all, due to fakes everywhere?

Should one just steer clear of BCCG, are they a scam? would you have any BCCG in your collection or were they shitty at grading and no one wants them

Thanks
They are not the same. BGS is for modern cards. BVG is for vintage, and BCCG is something different still that was supposed to be some type of collectors club as a cheaper option. Honestly I don't know much about BCCG because I've always steered clear, but from what I know of them, it was an attempt to change the grading scale with fine print detail. For example their 8 is not NM-MT, it's "EX or better" (Huh?) Yes, if you submit a card in a BCCG holder, any other service will absolutely crack it, grade on their scale and it's own merits - and it would not be uncommon for a BCCG 8 to be something like a PSA 4.

IMO, Beckett grading is your last option. I would never send to them. Their marketing if nothing else is a disaster, and they are not respected in the marketplace for grading anything other than modern cards. Vintage doesn't really hold it's value. I have gotten some deals there, but always bust the cards out of the BVG slabs.
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Last edited by jchcollins; 12-18-2018 at 09:55 AM.
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Fuddjcal View Post
What is the difference between BGS and BCCG? Did they just change their name and why? These effin acronyms are so ridiculous and is there a difference between a BCCG 9 to a PSA 7? Does PSA crack these stupid BCCG plastic containers, regrade on it's own merit and put back into their own stupid holder? Pretty new to all the grading stuff but want to buy graded if at all, due to fakes everywhere?

Should one just steer clear of BCCG, are they a scam? would you have any BCCG in your collection or were they shitty at grading and no one wants them

Thanks
This really turned me off of Becket. When it first came out I said many sellers will be selling 7's, 8's and 9's as if those would also grade the same at PSA or SGC.
Some said I was being silly thinking that but in no time that is exactly what I seen.
These cards in those holders are nothing like those grades, and if fact they would grade half or less than half at PSA or SGC.

Newbies to the hobby or uneducated/ignorant buyers may not know this however and if Beckett didn't see this type of behaviour happening when they came out with this new grading system, then I don't think they're as "Professional" as some profess them to be.
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Old 12-18-2018, 12:57 PM
Marchillo Marchillo is offline
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Originally Posted by irv View Post
This really turned me off of Becket. When it first came out I said many sellers will be selling 7's, 8's and 9's as if those would also grade the same at PSA or SGC.
Some said I was being silly thinking that but in no time that is exactly what I seen.
These cards in those holders are nothing like those grades, and if fact they would grade half or less than half at PSA or SGC.

Newbies to the hobby or uneducated/ignorant buyers may not know this however and if Beckett didn't see this type of behaviour happening when they came out with this new grading system, then I don't think they're as "Professional" as some profess them to be.
Exactly right. One of my buddies who just got back into the collecting world is doing a Nolan Ryan run and doing pretty well in the ungraded card game. He sends me a link to a 71 Ryan saying I canít believe this card is a 7. I look and itís a BCCG case so I explained the difference. It really hurts newbies in the collecting world the most.
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:04 PM
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Exactly right. One of my buddies who just got back into the collecting world is doing a Nolan Ryan run and doing pretty well in the ungraded card game. He sends me a link to a 71 Ryan saying I can’t believe this card is a 7. I look and it’s a BCCG case so I explained the difference. It really hurts newbies in the collecting world the most.
It's a gimmick. That is exactly what they are going for - a few new people to buy 7's expecting NM cards. You would think that from a cannabilism perspective alone they would have already given up on having 3 different and confusing systems that were doing the same thing just under different labels, but no. No other grading company to my knowledge does this.
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Last edited by jchcollins; 12-18-2018 at 02:06 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2018, 06:48 PM
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At least they have the BCCG 7: Very Good or Better or whatever in large print on their label. As long as they realize the card would likely grade a 3 at other companies, what they're doing isn't dishonest. Annoying, but not deceptive.
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2018, 07:43 PM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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Thanks for the fantastic replies to this grading company and system. The collectors are not fond of their grading system it's apparent.

Are the holders easy to break cards out or should you let the professionals do that and ifso fatso, just expect a 5 or 6 SGC/PSA for a BGGS 9? If I were to undertake such a project?

I seem to remember stabbing and creasing a perfectly good Rose rookie card in the early eighties in just a regular holder for that time period. Just crumbled the card in the trash at the time. So, I'm not too clear behind the wheel with a knife/screw driver /plastic etc...

Thanks again
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2018, 08:33 PM
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I have cracked probably 20 BGS/SCD holders that are tougher and 10 SGC holders that are really easy. Haven't done a BCCG one, but they're probably easier than BGS standard holders. SGC you can pry open with a butter knife along the edge. For BGS/SCD, I use pliers to snap off a corner by torquing it, then pry open with a flathead screwdriver. Only slightly bent one card out of the 30 or so I've cracked.
PSA will do it just fine if you submit as a crossover and set whatever minimum grade you'd require. As to grade you should expect, you should know how the grades look and compare to the current listed standards on the PSA website. A BCCG 9 could theoretically grade anywhere between a 6 to even a 9, possibly. Not sure how they grade for centering on BCCG, but BGS centering subgrades are tougher than the PSA grade requires. So you can take BGS 9s if you know what to look for and they'll normally cross to PSA 10 as long as the corners are sharp.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2018, 08:51 PM
Marchillo Marchillo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
At least they have the BCCG 7: Very Good or Better or whatever in large print on their label. As long as they realize the card would likely grade a 3 at other companies, what they're doing isn't dishonest. Annoying, but not deceptive.
Iíd say itís a little deceptive for a newbie. If you know the grading scale and what they equate to itís not, but some people see the number (my buddy) and donít know until itís explained.

Itís not like pretending a reprint is an original card, but itís confusing for a newbie.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2018, 10:04 PM
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BCCG was a concoction for the shop at home shows.
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2018, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
BCCG was a concoction for the shop at home shows.
And I would only use a BCCG holder as a third party opinion that the card is authentic and gradable, nothing more.
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2018, 06:39 AM
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Just wondering about others experience, Can we assume that a BCCG 9 would at least grade out a a PSA 7? I have occasionally seen a few vintage graded BCCG 9 that I considered purchasing but never took the chance.
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:32 AM
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I think my dealer friend Tony put it best in this article. "well, I don't know why" with reference to BCCG.

Keep in mind this is from 2005.

http://www.monstercards.net/columns/psa060205.html
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by stlcardsfan View Post
I think my dealer friend Tony put it best in this article. "well, I don't know why" with reference to BCCG.

Keep in mind this is from 2005.

http://www.monstercards.net/columns/psa060205.html
"I believe this was created so people could advertise 10s on TV and sell substandard cards. I'm not a fan of any of their services."

Yep...
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2018, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
At least they have the BCCG 7: Very Good or Better or whatever in large print on their label. As long as they realize the card would likely grade a 3 at other companies, what they're doing isn't dishonest. Annoying, but not deceptive.
I disagree completely. From Beckett's site, they claim it is a 10 point grading system, just like PSA, SGC or BVG but yet they skew the numbers and go against what the norm is throughout the world with regards to that. A 10 in anyone's mind is a perfect example and the numbers below that, as anyone knows, the quality becomes less and less. It is no different than calling a woman a 10 like Bo Derek or whoever you think is worthy of the claim/title. With BCCG, a 10, 8, 6, whatever is not to the same standard, which makes one wonder why/question how this can be a 10 point grading system?

"In an effort to reach our wider audience, BCCG was created as a high-volume grading service intended to provide collectors with an attractive and affordable alternative to other graded card products.
Simplified 10-point grading scale
No internal sleeve
Quality archival protection
Sonically sealed/tamper-proof protection
"

In this old post, you can actually see how their numbers compare to the norm. In my opinion, this is a 100% deceptive.
What is the purpose of this other than to deceive?
"BCCG has a completely different grading scale from any of the other grading companies including Beckett. The BCCG grading scale is:

BCCG 10 Mint or Better = BGS 9 or Better
BCCG 9 Near Mint or Better = BGS 7 or Better
BCCG 8 Excellent or Better = BGS 5 or Better
BCCG 7 Very Good or Better = BGS 3 or Better
BCCG 6 Good or Better = BGS 2 or Better
BCCG 5 Poor or Better = BGS 1 or Better"


In this older post, it sounds like you also thought the same once upon a time?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=220046

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfh24 View Post
Just wondering about others experience, Can we assume that a BCCG 9 would at least grade out a a PSA 7? I have occasionally seen a few vintage graded BCCG 9 that I considered purchasing but never took the chance.
I highly doubt it that would be the case. Like I mentioned earlier, a BCCG graded would, in most cases, likely grade out about half or less at SGC or PSA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgaZGrf2gg

Last edited by irv; 12-19-2018 at 09:34 AM.
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2018, 09:57 AM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcardsfan View Post
I think my dealer friend Tony put it best in this article. "well, I don't know why" with reference to BCCG.

Keep in mind this is from 2005.

http://www.monstercards.net/columns/psa060205.html
thanks for the link. I never remember seeing any baseball cards on TV....Good thing
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:59 AM
Fuddjcal Fuddjcal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
I disagree completely. From Beckett's site, they claim it is a 10 point grading system, just like PSA, SGC or BVG but yet they skew the numbers and go against what the norm is throughout the world with regards to that. A 10 in anyone's mind is a perfect example and the numbers below that, as anyone knows, the quality becomes less and less. It is no different than calling a woman a 10 like Bo Derek or whoever you think is worthy of the claim/title. With BCCG, a 10, 8, 6, whatever is not to the same standard, which makes one wonder why/question how this can be a 10 point grading system?

"In an effort to reach our wider audience, BCCG was created as a high-volume grading service intended to provide collectors with an attractive and affordable alternative to other graded card products.
Simplified 10-point grading scale
No internal sleeve
Quality archival protection
Sonically sealed/tamper-proof protection
"

In this old post, you can actually see how their numbers compare to the norm. In my opinion, this is a 100% deceptive.
What is the purpose of this other than to deceive?
"BCCG has a completely different grading scale from any of the other grading companies including Beckett. The BCCG grading scale is:

BCCG 10 Mint or Better = BGS 9 or Better
BCCG 9 Near Mint or Better = BGS 7 or Better
BCCG 8 Excellent or Better = BGS 5 or Better
BCCG 7 Very Good or Better = BGS 3 or Better
BCCG 6 Good or Better = BGS 2 or Better
BCCG 5 Poor or Better = BGS 1 or Better"


In this older post, it sounds like you also thought the same once upon a time?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=220046



I highly doubt it that would be the case. Like I mentioned earlier, a BCCG graded would, in most cases, likely grade out about half or less at SGC or PSA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgaZGrf2gg
Thanks Irv, very helpful indeed.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2018, 10:09 AM
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If people can't be bothered to read the words on the flip, that sounds like their problem, not BCCG. And the link you posted only shows that I would be disappointed getting a card graded by BCCG, not that they're scammers.
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BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
If people can't be bothered to read the words on the flip, that sounds like their problem, not BCCG. And the link you posted only shows that I would be disappointed getting a card graded by BCCG, not that they're scammers.
Agree technically that they are not scammers. But it is a very odd practice and overall business model. Unethical? No. Extremely frustrating? Yes.
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2018, 10:50 AM
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The BCCG model is absolutely a play to the low information/less experienced collector. It is a means of getting poor condition cards into the hands of collectors who will think they have a a high quality card when they do not. It is also a tool for predatory sellers masking junk as high quality.

It is not illegal and does not impact me but they are attempting to take advantage of those who are uninformed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
If people can't be bothered to read the words on the flip, that sounds like their problem, not BCCG. And the link you posted only shows that I would be disappointed getting a card graded by BCCG, not that they're scammers.
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  #21  
Old 12-19-2018, 12:49 PM
Rich Klein Rich Klein is offline
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Adam (Exhibitman) noted the exact reason for BCCG. Without going into gruesome detail, BCCG was a great and terrible decision for BGS at the same time.

Rich
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:08 PM
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really glad I asked the question as an extreme novice. Was hoping not to get beat like a red headed step child, should I venture out of my comfort zone. Thanks again guys.
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  #23  
Old 12-20-2018, 05:32 AM
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So is SGC being deceptive by going to the "standard" 10 point scale, except for having an SGC 10 be both Gem Mint *and* Pristine? And creating a new grade of 9.5 Mint+ that no other grading company has?
Why muddy the waters even further?
https://www.comc.com/Cards/MultiSpor...424/Graded/SGC

1992 Classic Four Sport Draft Pick Collection - [Base] #231 - Derek Jeter [SGC*100*PRISTINE]
Courtesy of COMC.com

1992 Classic Four Sport Draft Pick Collection - [Base] #231 - Derek Jeter [SGC*98*GEM*10]
Courtesy of COMC.com

1992 Classic Four Sport Draft Pick Collection - [Base] #231 - Derek Jeter [SGC*9.5*Mint+]
Courtesy of COMC.com

1992 Classic Four Sport Draft Pick Collection - [Base] #231 - Derek Jeter [SGC*96*MINT*9]
Courtesy of COMC.com
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
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JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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