Post a Price..or "Make an Offer?"

[Filthy]

I was hoping we could have a somewhat intelligent discussion within this forum, as it relates to the philosophy of offering sports cards for Sale/Trade. More specifically, a detailed discussion and/or debate on the philosophy behind those who believe a seller should post a price vs. a seller asking an interested party to just "make an offer."

I bring this up for discussion, only because I continue to see it as an ever growing point of conflict in the B/S/T forums. I believe this open forum would be a much better platform to discuss the topic at hand, in a civil manner.... instead of ruining someone's B/S/T thread. But I believe it is a topic that should be openly discussed by anyone and everyone that is interested in buying or selling on this forum.


I do find it interesting, that people that argue one side or the other are pretty passionate about their beliefs.......yet there is consistently one side that always seems to bark louder, and with more anger behind their replies.


For me personally, I have always been neutral in my thoughts on this, but I definitely have made some observations recently "like the one above," that have me leaning slightly in one direction. Just thought I'd share, in hopes of inspiring productive conversation.



1. As a seller, you have the freedom to price your item in ANY way you want. That's your prerogative, and no ones else's. If you want to price it at 300% over the current going rate...so be it. Nobody here can dictate what you want to sell something for.


2. If you are genuinely trying to sell a card, why would you NOT post a price? Once again, being completely neutral on the subject...I'm curious to know what is there to gain, by not posting a price? It seems very counterproductive if selling the card is your true motive. By not posting a price, is it safe to say that you are automatically eliminating a good percentage of your prospective buyers from the get go?


So, I would love to see some input. A real discussion of thoughts here. Or even a quick snipe post, saying something derogatory. Whatever it may be..I am truly curious to know as many posters beliefs on this subject as possible.

[VintageJay]

Agreed. It's the seller's property so he/she can post any price they feel comfortable with.

As a buyer/customer, if you don't like the price just walk away. It's that simple in my opinion.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by VintageJay

Agreed. It's the seller's property so he/she can post any price they feel comfortable with.

As a buyer/customer, if you don't like the price just walk away. It's that simple in my opinion.

I agree as well, as this is how commerce is conducted, and transactions are made on an everyday basis throughout the World.

But that doesn't address the issue of someone posting something for sale...and then NOT posting a price. It's hard to "not like a price" and walk away..when there isn't a price given. Maybe the card can be purchased for EXACTLY what you are wanting to spend...but you will never know, because the seller will not give you a price.

[T206Collector]

Sometimes I am considering parting with a beautiful card. It would really have to generate an offer that would blow me away. I am concerned if I put a price down that if accepted I would have to part with, but I also want to determine a reasonable market price for the card. Sometimes I just want to get offers on cards I have so I know what market is out there if I decide to sell now or later.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Sometimes I am considering parting with a beautiful card. It would really have to generate an offer that would blow me away. I am concerned if I put a price down that if accepted I would have to part with, but I also want to determine a reasonable market price for the card. Sometimes I just want to get offers on cards I have so I know what market is out there if I decide to sell now or later.

So, If I understand your post correctly, there are two different circumstances here for you.

1. "It would need to generate an offer that would blow you away." There's no fault here, as I am the same way. There are things that I would part with...only if it brought the right kind of money. However...whatever "that" number is..you already internally know what it would take. So, why not post that as the price? If it sells....then you're "blown away" and happy with that price.

2. "Sometimes I just want to get offers on cards I have so I know what market is out there if I decide to sell now or later." So, if I understand it correctly..you aren't actually wanting to sell the card...more or less "testing the waters" or trying to get a current value?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Filthy

So, why not post that as the price?

Obscenely high asking prices will not generate reasonable counter-offers. And reasonable prices might get accepted.

Originally Posted by Filthy

2. [Y]ou aren't actually wanting to sell the card...more or less "testing the waters" or trying to get a current value?

Yes, but sometimes the water is perfect and you jump right in.

[VintageJay]

I agree with that also.

No price means no sale to me as a buyer. I can't remember ever buying an item without a price so I don't understand what the seller's thoughts are behind it.

I would rather the seller at least post a price (even if it's on the high end) with an "or best offer" option.

[ullmandds]

For the most part I don't like "make an offer" sales as I agree most of the time the seller is fishing. On the other hand I have made private deals with folks on this board who asked me to make an offer which they did accept.

But on the other hand...I have a handful of cards that are very rare...some one of a kind...and previous sales info is scarce if not nonexistent...so I really don't know what to charge...seeing as all I know is what I paid for it. I am reluctant to put prices on such cards. If someone wants one of these they will have to knock my socks off...to a certain degree!

[Thromdog]

"I have a T206 Lundgren Chicago that is a Piedmont 350 back, one of the elite 8 or 12. It's trimmed on the three sides and has a touch of paper loss on the back."

Put a price on it? Tough to do. I'm all for being transparent but when there is not enough data to go with, the best way is to tell folks to make an offer on it. If the offers don't feel right, you just kindly say no and move on.

I get that kind of situation. Frustrating for the buyers? Maybe.....but it makes some sense to me from the seller's perspective.

I usually post prices when I want to sell a card. When I want to trade it, I will say that I will entertain offers, and would likely not include the price and would likely only accept an offer if it is above what I wanted to sell it for. I have had the situations above though and it's really tough to add a price.

[nat]

"Make an Offer" posts can be seen as "WTB" posts. Consider: a post like the following would be unobjectionable:

WTB: 1966 Don Drysdale

I'm looking for a 1966 Drysdale, but I'm on a pretty tight budget. I could go up to, say, $20. So whoever can offer me the best-condition 1966 Drysdale for $20 gets my money. Let me know!


Now, basically, "Make an Offer" posts are doing the same thing, but in reverse. Basically, they're saying:

WTB: Money

I'm looking for money, but I'm on a pretty tight budget. What I can pay for money is a 1966 Don Drysdale. Condition of the money is unimportant, but I am interested in quantity. So whoever can offer me the most money gets my 1966 Drysdale. Let me know!


While that's meant to be silly, it's also true. On the other hand, making an offer to sell or to buy involves the risk of proposing something insultingly high- or low-ball. (Or at least that will be taken to be insulting.) And proposing something insulting doesn't feel very good. The psychological effect of this is mitigated when the sale offer is insultingly high, because it simply prevents any interaction at all between seller and (prospective) buyer. The post simply doesn't get any response. But with a make-an-offer the prospective buyer needs to do something that may end up being gauche - the seller's response may be "come on, get serious" - and there's a sort of embarrassment involved there that the buyer may like to avoid. (Which could lead to a higher offer, or could lead to not making any offer at all.)

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by VintageJay

No price means no sale to me as a buyer. I can't remember ever buying an item without a price so I don't understand what the seller's thoughts are behind it.

I would rather the seller at least post a price (even if it's on the high end) with an "or best offer" option.

This is my sentiment as well. By not posting a price, most sellers are eliminating a very large percentage of their prospective buyers right from the get go.

[bn2cardz]

It really makes no difference to me how anyone posts something for sale. Even when it doesn't have a price I will consider it the same way I consider any purchase.

The thing I hate is the opposite. When I post a price and I get "what is the lowest you will take?". I already posted a price. Why is it now on me to bid against myself to sell the item?

Or when I don't even post a card for sale, but another member knows I own it and they ask "are you willing to sell?", then follow up with "what would you take for it?". At that point I believe it is on them to offer a price. I didn't post it for sale, so why would you force my hand to give you a price point? If you want it than make an offer.

[bnorth]

For me not having to post a price in the BST section is one of the few rules on this site I do not like. If it is for sale put a price on it. Just my opinion but not posting a price and asking for offers is trying to find a "guppy" to highly overpay for an item.

Edited to add I agree with this also: It's the seller's property so he/she can post any price they feel comfortable with.

As a buyer/customer, if you don't like the price just walk away. It's that simple in my opinion.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by bnorth

For me not having to post a price in the BST section is one of the few rules on this site I do not like. If it is for sale put a price on it. Just my opinion but not posting a price and asking for offers is trying to find a "guppy" to highly overpay for an item.

Edited to add I agree with this also: It's the seller's property so he/she can post any price they feel comfortable with.

As a buyer/customer, if you don't like the price just walk away. It's that simple in my opinion.

Agree with Ben here.....and if the seller does not respond with a price, I generally just walk away. To me, this means the seller really isn't interested in selling and they are looking for a "guppy" as Ben indicated.

Z

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by bnorth

For me not having to post a price in the BST section is one of the few rules on this site I do not like. If it is for sale put a price on it. Just my opinion but not posting a price and asking for offers is trying to find a "guppy" to highly overpay for an item.

Edited to add I agree with this also: It's the seller's property so he/she can post any price they feel comfortable with.

As a buyer/customer, if you don't like the price just walk away. It's that simple in my opinion.

I agree with this. A seller can price his card at whatever price he wants. I also do not agree with the rule of allowing listings without a price. There aren't many other instances I can think of in which something is publicly for sale without a price. I get that some cards are rare and hard to estimate a market for, but I have never tried to sell something without having an idea of what I'm willing to take.

I think this would make for an interesting poll. My vote would be to ban b/s/t listings with no price.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I agree with this. A seller can price his card at whatever price he wants. I also do not agree with the rule of allowing listings without a price. There aren't many other instances I can think of in which something is publicly for sale without a price. I get that some cards are rare and hard to estimate a market for, but I have never tried to sell something without having an idea of what I'm willing to take.

I think this would make for an interesting poll. My vote would be to ban b/s/t listings with no price.

Honestly, I originally thought about making it a poll. And I am confident in exactly how that poll would look. (VERY Heavily weighted in one direction.) Yet, it doesn't change the fact that there are those in the business...err...I mean hobby for all the wrong reasons, that have a very strong here on Net54. So, I am pretty confident, that the poll/thread would have been removed/deleted within minutes of its inception.







.

[Sean]

This isn't C U.

Leon rarely shuts down any threads, including polls.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by Sean

This isn't C U.

Leon rarely shuts down any threads, including polls.

Sorry, I guess it was more of a tongue in cheek comment, as I would think Leon's integrity would be worth much more than a few members requesting such a thing. But, i did just notice that within 5 seconds of sending that aklst post...that I heard a few noises outside the house. When I look outisde, there is a black unmarked SUV, and a black helicopter directly overhead.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

It's pretty simple, you'd post without a price in hopes that someone will offer an amount that's more than what you expected. For both buyer and seller this is obviously a more complicated transaction scenario but at the end of the day a bst buyer doesn't have to participate and can move on the the next. For me the back and forth is fun in finding out if there's a deal to be had. As a buyer I know what I want to pay and if it's not enough for the seller no hard feelings

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

It's pretty simple, you'd post without a price in hopes that someone will offer an amount
that's more than what you expected. For both buyer and seller this is obviously a more complicated transaction scenario but at the end of the day a bst buyer doesn't have to participate and can move on the the next. For me the back and forth is fun in finding out if there's a deal to be had. As a buyer I know what I want to pay and if it's not enough for the seller no hard feelings

I understand the importance of the "art of negotiation", and its intricacies. In a previous post, you mentioned that a "good buyer" wouldn't mind navigating/structuring such a deal, as if someone who doesn't want to take a day or two negotiating a deal for a baseball card, isn't worth their salt. These are baseball cards, not life altering decisions. I would guess, that for most....that this is a waste of time. (Not a badge of honor, or a measure of your badassness in buying bubble gum cards.)

[frankbmd]

A large number of buyers see a price, want the card and pay the price. If they don't see a price, they then either walk or have a hissy fit. For transactions of this type there should be a DFZ.

Other buyers will routinely see a price, want the card and offer less. If the seller doesn't comply, both parties either walk or have a hissy fit. If negotiation ensues, then this type of listing does not belong in a DFZ.

Other buyers will routinely ignore the price, want the card and make a lowball offer. If the listing price is much higher than market (and the seller knows it), a deal might ensue but is extremely unlikely, but can occur. Making a reasonable lower offer on a BIN (without the OBO option) can result in a deal. Here the BIN is essentially an irrelevant price.

So what is a seller to do. Basically this is influenced by a number of factors.

Does he need the cash yesterday? If so, he prices for a quick sale.

Does he price exactly at market price and wait for the first "I'll take it" while fending off multiple offers for less?

Does he price a little above market to be able to accomodate reasonable "hagglers" that are BTH?

Does he intentionally overprice thinking that when he announces a "price drop" he will attract bargain hunters? Have you ever been to Hawaii where all the shirts for tourists are 50% off?

I would venture to say that everything we have is for sale if the offer is high enough. Motivation to sell is extremely variable.

Conclusion Recipe

Mix many types of buyers with many types of sellers.

Create a BST with as few rules as possible placing restrictions on the market itself. No price, no problem. High price, no problem. Lowball offer, no problem. DFZ, not needed. BTH, why not.

Let free market economics work in the real world.

I will not buy from every seller, nor will I sell to every buyer, but I will sell anything I have one way or the other.


Footnotes:

DFZ = dicker free zone
BTH = born to haggle

[Peter_Spaeth]

Have you ever seen a mattress or rug that was not on a clearance sale?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Have you ever seen a mattress or rug that was not on a clearance sale?

I used to work in retail (bed linens) at Marshall Fields in Houston. I believe (it's been a few to several decades) by law we were only allowed to have items on sale for 9 months.

[Pilot172000]

If its something I am looking for, I will inquire to the price even if not posted. If its something of interest, I will click on the thread to see if there is a price posted if not I usually move on. If there is a price posted and I think its a good deal, I will jump at it. I am certainly not going to post on a thread if I have absolutely no interest in the card. I wouldn't want to get caught "Noob Meddlin" JK

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Filthy

1. As a seller, you have the freedom to price your item in ANY way you want. That's your prerogative, and no ones else's. If you want to price it at 300% over the current going rate...so be it. Nobody here can dictate what you want to sell something for.


2. If you are genuinely trying to sell a card, why would you NOT post a price? Once again, being completely neutral on the subject...I'm curious to know what is there to gain, by not posting a price? It seems very counterproductive if selling the card is your true motive. By not posting a price, is it safe to say that you are automatically eliminating a good percentage of your prospective buyers from the get go?

1. Very true yet unwise because of #2
2. I would say that I like to see people post a price with make me an offer. Showing that there price is negotiable. I generally never pay someones asking price. If they stand pat I steer away it's usually the way I roll.

On the reverse side the seller may not be entirely sure of the market price for the card so he/she doesn't list a price and get's a couple inquires to see what the card is worth.

[Luke]

I think the way Leon moderates is likely the best. No matter what he does, some people will be upset, but I think the hands-off approach has worked well.

My biggest problem is that the lack of rules creates an environment where people can use the BST for widely differing purposes. Most of us list things for sale that we would like to sell at a reasonable price. I think the general sentiment would be that that is the purpose of the BST, and to use it in any other way is poor etiquette.

My biggest pet peeve with the BST is the people that use it like their own personal ebay museum, posting cards with ridiculously high prices, and then bumping them 10 times with price drops. Then, when the thread gets too long, they start a new thread for the same card. That seems like an abuse of the BST to me. If you want to put a crazy price on something, do it on ebay imo.

I think that make an offer listings are fine when it is tough to price an item, and when the seller doesn't do it all the time.

There was a recent post where a guy was trying to sell a SGC graded Cobb at well above VCP for the card, but wouldn't put a price. In my opinion that should be kept to a minimum. It makes it seem like the seller is fishing for someone who will pay way more than the card is worth (that's what it looks like to a lot of people, but I am not saying that is the seller's intention - I don't know). I don't think there's anything wrong with pricing a card well above VCP. Some cards present much nicer than the grade, and I've done it myself on this site before. But in a case like that where VCP is like $2000 and the seller wants $2500, I don't see why a price couldn't be posted.