Curious about how t206's were cut from sheets.

[iwantitiwinit]

I wonder if anyone can shed any light on how cards were cut from sheets down to individual cards (most specifically t206's). How many sheets would they typically cut through at one time and once they were reduced to strips how did they hold the stack of strips securely to cut them to single cards? Did they use a jig with two side walls that the strips were fed through so the strips could not move from side to side and splay out when the singles were being cut? If that type of jig were used I'd expect the top few strips to slide forward once the blade hit them unless they were somehow clamped.

Can anyone elaborate on the process and I apologize if this has been discussed before.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I wonder if anyone can shed any light on how cards were cut from sheets down to individual cards (most specifically t206's). How many sheets would they typically cut through at one time and once they were reduced to strips how did they hold the stack of strips securely to cut them to single cards? Did they use a jig with two side walls that the strips were fed through so the strips could not move from side to side and splay out when the singles were being cut? If that type of jig were used I'd expect the top few strips to slide forward once the blade hit them unless they were somehow clamped.

Can anyone elaborate on the process and I apologize if this has been discussed before.

Bill Mastro says a exacto knife and metal ruler work best, PSA agrees. Sorry couldn't resist.

[Den*nis O*Brien]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Bill Mastro says a exacto knife and metal ruler work best, PSA agrees. Sorry couldn't resist.

I'm glad you couldn't resist....that is a Hoot !!

[mrvster]

great question! I am curious myself........

I would "assume" sheets were aligned manually on a cutting surface....while mechanically the pre set blades just pounded them out........I'm not well versed in this area......but I am familiar with the basics....

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by mrvster

great question! I am curious myself........

I would "assume" sheets were aligned manually on a cutting surface....while mechanically the pre set blades just pounded them out........I'm not well versed in this area......but I am familiar with the basics....

Right but that would result in rows of strips wouldn't it? How were the strips then cut into individual cards?

[emmygirl]

Ok, so I spent more than half my working life in a print shop. Here's how the process works to get the little beauties cut with the best results possible for the timeframe of 1909-1911 etc. First the cards are sent to the cutter with an "operators Side Guide Mark' This mark tells the cutter operator how to put the stock into the cutting machine to insure that the "Registration of the printing press is perserved while cutting takes place. Stock is then trimmed four sides, first the operator guage and "Gripper" bottom of sheet goes into the cutter and the "OPPOSITE SIDE is trimmed and you now have (3) three sides in hopefully good registration in TACK. Next the sheets are moved to the other side of cutter known as the cutters BACK Guage. The sheets are not JOGGED here because they are still together from the previous cut. Cut number two cuts the back of the sheet that is probably the most uneven. You now have a clean 4 sided stack ready to cut into stips. The stock is returned to the original position on the cutter with the gripper edge of sheets and operator side guide at square one. Cards are now carefully cut into strips of as many rows as the sheet has let's say 10 rows of 7 cards per strip. After all rows are cut the first strip goes back into the cutter and each additioal strip is carefully "PUSHED/SLID" next to the one before it making it ready to be cut 10 rows at a time. Here is where the need for a really sharp cutting blade is escential. The rows are clamped down with a wieghted bar just before the blade does its work. A dull blade causes "PAPER DRAG" and that causes miscuts. So, sharp blade and knowledge of side guides and great cutting skills will make for more even borders and beautiful T206's etc. Hope this helps and sorry this is so lengthly. Jim

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by emmygirl

Ok, so I spent more than half my working life in a print shop. Here's how the process works to get the little beauties cut with the best results possible for the timeframe of 1909-1911 etc. First the cards are sent to the cutter with an "operators Side Guide Mark' This mark tells the cutter operator how to put the stock into the cutting machine to insure that the "Registration of the printing press is perserved while cutting takes place. Stock is then trimmed four sides, first the operator guage and "Gripper" bottom of sheet goes into the cutter and the "OPPOSITE SIDE is trimmed and you now have (3) three sides in hopefully good registration in TACK. Next the sheets are moved to the other side of cutter known as the cutters BACK Guage. The sheets are not JOGGED here because they are still together from the previous cut. Cut number two cuts the back of the sheet that is probably the most uneven. You now have a clean 4 sided stack ready to cut into stips. The stock is returned to the original position on the cutter with the gripper edge of sheets and operator side guide at square one. Cards are now carefully cut into strips of as many rows as the sheet has let's say 10 rows of 7 cards per strip. After all rows are cut the first strip goes back into the cutter and each additioal strip is carefully "PUSHED/SLID" next to the one before it making it ready to be cut 10 rows at a time. Here is where the need for a really sharp cutting blade is escential. The rows are clamped down with a wieghted bar just before the blade does its work. A dull blade causes "PAPER DRAG" and that causes miscuts. So, sharp blade and knowledge of side guides and great cutting skills will make for more even borders and beautiful T206's etc. Hope this helps and sorry this is so lengthly. Jim

That's a great description thanks very much. So the strips are placed essentially tightly side by side once they are cut lets say as many as ten strips. Those strips are then clamped down and the furthest forward cards are then cut making 10 singles at once, I get it.

1) If you had to guess given the thickness of t206's how many sheets could be cut through at once.
2) When the pile of strips were placed side by side would the lowest strip tend to occasionally slip under the adjacent pile of strips or would the thickness of the stock be enough to prevent this?
3) In your experience did the printing process or the cutting process result in more "wasted/rejected" stock?

Again thanks very much.

[bbcard1]

Jim, that's a pretty great explanation. I have spent my career doing advertising and have printed and die cut more stuff than I care to recall One further expiation that is worth considering is that since there is a very slight natural "bow" to paper and since the blades were basically doing a guillotine cut, a naturally cut T206 has, under a magnification, a very slight front to back slant to it which cannot be perceived by the naked eye but is pretty pronounced under magnification. This is one of the ways trims...since the card is normally laid flat and cut with an exact...is detected.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by emmygirl

Ok, so I spent more than half my working life in a print shop. Here's how the process works to get the little beauties cut with the best results possible for the timeframe of 1909-1911 etc. First the cards are sent to the cutter with an "operators Side Guide Mark' This mark tells the cutter operator how to put the stock into the cutting machine to insure that the "Registration of the printing press is perserved while cutting takes place. Stock is then trimmed four sides, first the operator guage and "Gripper" bottom of sheet goes into the cutter and the "OPPOSITE SIDE is trimmed and you now have (3) three sides in hopefully good registration in TACK. Next the sheets are moved to the other side of cutter known as the cutters BACK Guage. The sheets are not JOGGED here because they are still together from the previous cut. Cut number two cuts the back of the sheet that is probably the most uneven. You now have a clean 4 sided stack ready to cut into stips. The stock is returned to the original position on the cutter with the gripper edge of sheets and operator side guide at square one. Cards are now carefully cut into strips of as many rows as the sheet has let's say 10 rows of 7 cards per strip. After all rows are cut the first strip goes back into the cutter and each additioal strip is carefully "PUSHED/SLID" next to the one before it making it ready to be cut 10 rows at a time. Here is where the need for a really sharp cutting blade is escential. The rows are clamped down with a wieghted bar just before the blade does its work. A dull blade causes "PAPER DRAG" and that causes miscuts. So, sharp blade and knowledge of side guides and great cutting skills will make for more even borders and beautiful T206's etc. Hope this helps and sorry this is so lengthly. Jim

The shop I worked for did it slightly differently. The stack was always placed up against both the side and the back guage to ensure a cut that was square. Most of what we did was large, stuff to fold into books, small placards and posters, that sort of thing. The few times we had small things like business cards or deposit slips. (Hardly ever, maybe two business card jobs which were done on a small press - sheets of 4 or 6, and one batch of deposit tickets I think 200,000+ multi sheet carbonless forms- That I had to shrink wrap in bundles of 50 Not fun! ) The deposit tickets were trimmed then cut into blocks, avoiding problems from handling long strips. Our cutters had a bit of memory, so you could make a repeatable series of cuts. Most small jobs were done manually, and the deposit tickets were done oddly, the whole job got the first cut, then the whole job got the second cut and so on.

Either method can be fine, depending on the equipment and job size. T206s were probably at least partly done in strips leading to a lot of diamond cuts from being a bit crooked in the cutter.

The cutters we had could handle about a 5-6 inch thick stack of paper. There were and are larger cutters. ALC being large would probably have had a couple cutters with more capacity. The adjustability would have been essentially the same as what we had in 1980 just without the memory. (which I believe was mechanically done rather than by computer.)



Steve B

[emmygirl]

Hi Robert and Todd, great points by you both. First Roberts three questions answered as best I can. I ended my printing career in 2012 in a plant with very mordern machinery. The presses were 6 color over 2 color with strobelight press check running at 12k-14k sheets per hour speed Actualy worked on a 1920's cutting machine when I was 19 yrs. old in 1965. Probably like the cuttuers used back in 1909-11.
How many sheets would have been cut on each "LIFT" probably no more that 200 maybe less because of the smallness of the final pieces. The higer the stack the more diffucult to control the little beauties.
Would the strips slid side by side cause some to slip under each stack? Yes, thats a possibility but the strips do not leave the cutting surface until the final cut. They stay on the cutting machine in strips so the TIGHTNESs of eash strip is maintained. Then carefully slide back together as a solid group ready for the final cuts. A Good Cutting Operator is what makes for minumum lose of product (cards).
Wasted Stock at the Cutting Machine? Sure there is some especially back then. MakeReady Sheets are used at all pionts in the printing processing. They help each area of work to use these sheets to "Make Ready' their particular job. The Cutter Operator would recieve a "rule out sheet' showing the cut lines of every card and he would then get ready to cut a small lift of card sheets and place the rule out sheet ONTOP and make all cut to see if they're OK or if there needs to be an adjustment somewhere. If everything looks good with the small stack maybe 50 sheets away he goes with bigger stacks.
Todd's comment about the guiatine cuts is absolutly correct. Stock always captures air in the middle of the sheets and causes a roundness in the "Center" of a large sheet when stacked say with 5k sheets. Heavy stock like that which was used for older cards like T206' s would have some air but not as much as thin stock. The extra air is Smoothed Out by the Cutter Operator as he places the sheets into his machine, maybe 25 sheets at a time until he has the "Desired Amount" he feels comfortable cutting. If the air is not removed then beveled results will appear on the cards edges.
Just a couple of final thoughts, first the stock used back then was not the best stock as they knew these little cards where for the most part going into cigarrette packaging. No need for high end paper here. And the printing presses and cutting machines did an ok job for what they wanted for a final product. Wrong Backs are made with the "Make Ready Sheets used to get the press ready to run before the OK is given. they where spun and flipped around etc for the pressman to get ready quicker. Make Ready Sheets where normally thrown away after the print run was over. Sometimes these make ready sheets would be used for other jobs to get the next job "UP TO COLOR" to save some additional paper. Hope this helps a little..
Best Jim

[iwantitiwinit]

Thanks Jim and Steve.