Future HOFers

[theshleps]

I am going to be selling maybe 20,000 signed cards 1990-2012. I want to pull out all potential future HOFers. Which players who played any years during that time period (or managed) have a good shot at the HOF. Of course Cabrera, Ichiro, Jeter. Thanks in advance for your input

[trdcrdkid]

Pujols. Rivera. Griffey.

[kevinlenane]

Ortiz

[bcbgcbrcb]

I would go with Pujols, V Guerrero, Griffey Jr, Kershaw, F Hernandez, Thome, Trout & M Rivera.

[ksabet]

Going way into the future I would say Trout, McCutchen and possibly Harper.

[sycks22]

Beltre

[sayhey24]

Ortiz will have trouble making the Hall because of PEDs.

Greg

[trdcrdkid]

Trout, Kershaw, and (to a lesser extent) McCutchen are certainly on a HOF pace, but they're still early enough in their careers that they're more of a gamble. If they keep up what they've been doing for another 5-10 years, then they'll definitely be HOFers, but if their careers ended today, they wouldn't. Cabrera, Pujols, and Ichiro have done enough to be HOFers even if they retired today.

[packs]

Guys who haven't been named yet:

Jorge Posada (eventually)
Ivan Rodriguez (probably)
Chipper Jones
Omar Vizquel (eventually)
Roy Halladay (maybe)
Buster Posey (might be the greatest catcher of all time one day)


A word to the wise re: Kershaw / Felix. I'd be very careful. Johan looked like a lock too after winning 2 CYs and 3 ERA titles. Things ended much differently than they started.

[trdcrdkid]

As a manager, Bruce Bochy (4 pennants and 3 World Series in 21 years, so far).

[Wayne]

Still early on some on my list and some should be and or maybe one day (this list is just partial list keep in mind drugs off the field attitudes also play into HOF some may never get in PED I hope never get it, and probable most controversial list and some will argue but you asked potential)
Larry Walker
Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa
Mark McGwire
Barry Bonds
Juan Gonzalez
Miguel cabrera
Derek Jeter
Albert Pujols
Dave Justice
Fred McGriff
Kenny Lofton
Clayton Kershaw
Andrew McCutchen
Buster Posey
Mike Trout
Kevin Millwood- Millwood was part of a pitching rotation which featured Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz. In 1999 he was selected to his only All-Star Game and helped the Braves to the 1999 World Series and two seasons later the 2001 National League Championship Series. As a member of the Indians, his 2.86 ERA lead all American League pitchers,Millwood made his debut with the Atlanta Braves on July 14, 1997. A year later, he won 17 games. Millwood formed a part of the Braves' star pitching rotation, which also consisted of Greg Maddux, John Smoltz and Tom Glavine. According to Nate Silver, the 1997 Braves starting rotation was the best in the history of baseball.[1] Millwood was traded by the Braves to the Philadelphia Phillies for catcher Johnny Estrada in order to cut their payroll in the midst of economic difficulties. He went 14-12 with his new team, including throwing a no-hitter against the San Francisco Giants on April 27 coming in the Phillies final season at the stadium.
Nick Markakis--Maybe not so much
Darryl Strawberry
Joe Mauer
Elvis Andrus-- I just like the way he plays plus he was the 2nd youngest to play MLB, I think he MIGHT get in the Texas Rangers HOF
Andruw Jones
George Springer
Justin Morneau
Pudge
Chipper
Ichiro
David Ortiz
Griffey JR
Mariano Rivera
Bryce Harper

[darwinbulldog]

I like the dark horses. Here are some more that could get in (particularly if Hall voters of the future are more into sabermetrics).

Kevin Brown
Dave Stieb
Chase Utley
Mike Mussina
Jeff Bagwell

[bdk1976]

Kevin Millwood!? Really?

[packs]

Also wondering what you see in Elvis Andus or Nick Markakis.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Guys who haven't been named yet:

Jorge Posada (eventually)
Ivan Rodriguez (probably)
Chipper Jones
Omar Vizquel (eventually)
Roy Halladay (maybe)
Buster Posey (might be the greatest catcher of all time one day)


A word to the wise re: Kershaw / Felix. I'd be very careful. Johan looked like a lock too after winning 2 CYs and 3 ERA titles. Things ended much differently than they started.

Sabathia has imploded too.

[pclpads]

Chipper, Bags, Jeff Kent, Piazza

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by packs

Also wondering what you see in Elvis Andus or Nick Markakis.

Decent players, certainly not HoF.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

Ortiz will have trouble making the Hall because of PEDs.

Greg

Don't be shocked if at some point sooner than later the hall's voter's stand on PEDs moderates.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Wayne

Still early on some on my list and some should be and or maybe one day (this list is just partial list keep in mind drugs off the field attitudes also play into HOF some may never get in PED I hope never get it, and probable most controversial list and some will argue but you asked potential)
Larry Walker
Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa
Mark McGwire
Barry Bonds
Juan Gonzalez
Miguel cabrera
Derek Jeter
Albert Pujols
Dave Justice
Fred McGriff
Kenny Lofton
Clayton Kershaw
Andrew McCutchen
Buster Posey
Mike Trout
Kevin Millwood
Nick Markakis
Darryl Strawberry
Joe Mauer
Elvis Andrus
Andruw Jones
George Springer
Justin Morneau
Pudge
Chipper
Ichiro
David Ortiz
Griffey JR
Mariano Rivera
Bryce Harper

Markakis!? Really? Has what, 2 hr's?


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[Jlighter]

Has Markakis even made an All-Star Game?

Millwood???

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Has Markakis even made an All-Star Game?

Markakis has been a pretty decent player for a decade -- .291 lifetime BA, .788 OPS, a couple of Gold Gloves -- but there's no way he's a HOFer unless he turns into a major late bloomer and plays another 10-15 years.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Wayne

Still early on some on my list and some should be and or maybe one day (this list is just partial list keep in mind drugs off the field attitudes also play into HOF some may never get in PED I hope never get it, and probable most controversial list and some will argue but you asked potential)
Larry Walker
Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa
Mark McGwire
Barry Bonds
Juan Gonzalez
Miguel cabrera
Derek Jeter
Albert Pujols
Dave Justice
Fred McGriff
Kenny Lofton
Clayton Kershaw
Andrew McCutchen
Buster Posey
Mike Trout
Kevin Millwood- Millwood was part of a pitching rotation which featured Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz. In 1999 he was selected to his only All-Star Game and helped the Braves to the 1999 World Series and two seasons later the 2001 National League Championship Series. As a member of the Indians, his 2.86 ERA lead all American League pitchers,Millwood made his debut with the Atlanta Braves on July 14, 1997. A year later, he won 17 games. Millwood formed a part of the Braves' star pitching rotation, which also consisted of Greg Maddux, John Smoltz and Tom Glavine. According to Nate Silver, the 1997 Braves starting rotation was the best in the history of baseball.[1] Millwood was traded by the Braves to the Philadelphia Phillies for catcher Johnny Estrada in order to cut their payroll in the midst of economic difficulties. He went 14-12 with his new team, including throwing a no-hitter against the San Francisco Giants on April 27 coming in the Phillies final season at the stadium.
Nick Markakis--Maybe not so much
Darryl Strawberry
Joe Mauer
Elvis Andrus-- I just like the way he plays plus he was the 2nd youngest to play MLB, I think he MIGHT get in the Texas Rangers HOF
Andruw Jones
George Springer
Justin Morneau
Pudge
Chipper
Ichiro
David Ortiz
Griffey JR
Mariano Rivera
Bryce Harper

This is the problem with the Hall of Fame...too many guys get in, All the sports should revamp the process, but most of this list you can tell the story of baseball without them.

Morneau, Springer, Andrus maybe in the Hall of above average

[AddieJoss]

Jimmy Rollins

[bn2cardz]

A huge potential that hasn't been mentioned is Paul Goldschmidt. Of course after 5 years isn't a sure shot, but he is on pace to have an outstanding career and getting better each year.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Wayne

Still early on some on my list and some should be and or maybe one day (this list is just partial list keep in mind drugs off the field attitudes also play into HOF some may never get in PED I hope never get it, and probable most controversial list and some will argue but you asked potential)
Larry Walker
Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa
Mark McGwire
Barry Bonds
Juan Gonzalez
Miguel cabrera
Derek Jeter
Albert Pujols
Dave Justice
Fred McGriff
Kenny Lofton
Clayton Kershaw
Andrew McCutchen
Buster Posey
Mike Trout
Kevin Millwood- Millwood was part of a pitching rotation which featured Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz. In 1999 he was selected to his only All-Star Game and helped the Braves to the 1999 World Series and two seasons later the 2001 National League Championship Series. As a member of the Indians, his 2.86 ERA lead all American League pitchers,Millwood made his debut with the Atlanta Braves on July 14, 1997. A year later, he won 17 games. Millwood formed a part of the Braves' star pitching rotation, which also consisted of Greg Maddux, John Smoltz and Tom Glavine. According to Nate Silver, the 1997 Braves starting rotation was the best in the history of baseball.[1] Millwood was traded by the Braves to the Philadelphia Phillies for catcher Johnny Estrada in order to cut their payroll in the midst of economic difficulties. He went 14-12 with his new team, including throwing a no-hitter against the San Francisco Giants on April 27 coming in the Phillies final season at the stadium.
Nick Markakis--Maybe not so much
Darryl Strawberry
Joe Mauer
Elvis Andrus-- I just like the way he plays plus he was the 2nd youngest to play MLB, I think he MIGHT get in the Texas Rangers HOF
Andruw Jones
George Springer
Justin Morneau
Pudge
Chipper
Ichiro
David Ortiz
Griffey JR
Mariano Rivera
Bryce Harper

Seriously?

[Mark]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

Trout, Kershaw, and (to a lesser extent) McCutchen are certainly on a HOF pace, but they're still early enough in their careers that they're more of a gamble. If they keep up what they've been doing for another 5-10 years, then they'll definitely be HOFers, but if their careers ended today, they wouldn't. Cabrera, Pujols, and Ichiro have done enough to be HOFers even if they retired today.

This sounds right to me, and I'd be surprised if Ortiz and Molina don't get in. Among the retired, Jeter, Jones, Halladay, and Rivera seem like sure things to me. There are others, like Beltran and Beltre, who pile up big HOF numbers and who might get the nod even though few have ever talked about them being THE player of the year. Then there is the whole generation of PED era all-stars who will probably get in, after a decent interval.

[Joshchisox08]

Long shot but I'd say Buehrle, Pierzynski, and Sale.

[rats60]

A guy who hasn't been mentioned, Andrew Jones. He has a lot better chance than most names people are throwing out. One of the 3 best defensive outfielders all time, with Clemente and Mays, plus a very good hitter in his prime.

If David Ortiz is a hofer, then so are Norm Cash, Fred McGriff, Will Clark and Keith Hernandez. The voters who are likely to over look his doping are going to look at his 49 war and see him as a poor man's Mark McGwire

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark

This sounds right to me, and I'd be surprised if Ortiz and Molina don't get in. Among the retired, Jeter, Jones, Halladay, and Rivera seem like sure things to me. There are others, like Beltran and Beltre, who pile up big HOF numbers and who might get the nod even though few have ever talked about them being THE player of the year. Then there is the whole generation of PED era all-stars who will probably get in, after a decent interval.

Halladay had a phenomenal winning percentage but barely passed 200 wins with a relatively short career -- borderline I think. I just don't see Molina -- 100 HR in 12 years so far, .736 OPS, .284 BA. There is a whole host of catchers with stats like that, or better, that aren't in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

A guy who hasn't been mentioned, Andrew Jones. He has a lot better chance than most names people are throwing out. One of the 3 best defensive outfielders all time, with Clemente and Mays, plus a very good hitter in his prime.

He had some nice years but with a .254 career BA, and 1900 hits, he isn't getting into any Hall of Fame. EDIT TO ADD I am a Red Sox fan but I agree about Ortiz -- in my opinion he is in that host of guys a step below, even without regard to the PED issue. McGriff as mentioned, Delgado comes to mind, maybe Giambi. He has some big enough looking numbers but they don't translate that well according to the Baseball Reference metrics. He is popular though.

Black Ink Batting - 16 (144), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 137 (122), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 138 (96), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 48 (94), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS First Base (33rd), 49.0 career WAR/33.3 7yr-peak WAR/41.1 JAWS

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Halladay had a phenomenal winning percentage but barely passed 200 wins with a relatively short career -- borderline I think. I just don't see Molina -- 100 HR in 12 years so far, .736 OPS, .284 BA. There is a whole host of catchers with stats like that, or better, that aren't in.

Fat Sloppy is a ROID user who got a pass and has a horrible attitude and thinks he's entitled to things.

If there's any ounce of justice left he shouldn't be in the HOF.

[Peter_Spaeth]

A guy who was headed for greatness but imploded after age 30 was Roy Oswalt. He had a phenomenal record after his first 8 years. (134-62)

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Halladay had a phenomenal winning percentage but barely passed 200 wins with a relatively short career -- borderline I think. I just don't see Molina -- 100 HR in 12 years so far, .736 OPS, .284 BA. There is a whole host of catchers with stats like that, or better, that aren't in.

Halladay may not have had the longevity as stated but I much prefer the stars like this who were at the top of the sport for a number of years over the lesser talented players who never get hurt and compile stats over time. Halladay would get my vote. He was a real throwback pitcher who completed games when no other pitchers did and put up stellar numbers in his day.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Mauer should get in based on what he did for 10 years as a catcher. Just needs to get some counting stats up, and not hit 260


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[yanksfan09]

I'll take 5 years from a Koufax over a Phil niekro career any day.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He had some nice years but with a .254 career BA, and 1900 hits, he isn't getting into any Hall of Fame. EDIT TO ADD I am a Red Sox fan but I agree about Ortiz -- in my opinion he is in that host of guys a step below, even without regard to the PED issue. McGriff as mentioned, Delgado comes to mind, maybe Giambi. He has some big enough looking numbers but they don't translate that well according to the Baseball Reference metrics. He is popular though.

Black Ink Batting - 16 (144), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 137 (122), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 138 (96), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 48 (94), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS First Base (33rd), 49.0 career WAR/33.3 7yr-peak WAR/41.1 JAWS

A JONES has a higher WAR and JAWS than most of the names being thrown out. If you don't think he's a hofer, fine. Then so aren't 80-90% of the names being thrown out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

Halladay may not have had the longevity as stated but I much prefer the stars like this who were at the top of the sport for a number of years over the lesser talented players who never get hurt and compile stats over time. Halladay would get my vote. He was a real throwback pitcher who completed games when no other pitchers did and put up stellar numbers in his day.

On that theory you should support Guidry? Fairly comparable stat line in terms of big seasons.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

A JONES has a higher WAR and JAWS than most of the names being thrown out. If you don't think he's a hofer, fine. Then so aren't 80-90% of the names being thrown out.

Yeah I would agree with you, many of the names mentioned are just not worthy.

[packs]

I don't think Mauer will get in. He had some great years as an elite catcher but I don't think it was enough. People have already forgotten for the most part.

Just to jump in on the Halladay discussion. Guidry's career is not at all comparable. Guidry did not pitch at the height of the steroid era or enjoy the separation amongst pitchers that Halladay did. Halladay led the league in complete games and shutouts 4 times in the same season during his career. He was a different breed of pitcher in his time, and that makes him much better than Guidry.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would agree Halladay was better, but Guidry had some fabulous seasons and I don't think the difference is as dramatic as you say.

[Joshchisox08]

Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa
Mark McGwire
Barry Bonds
Juan Gonzalez
Dave Justice
Kenny Lofton
Buster Posey
Kevin Millwood-
Nick Markakis--Maybe not so much
Darryl Strawberry
Elvis Andrus--
Andruw Jones -------------Try Torii Hunter
George Springer
Justin Morneau
David Ortiz
Larry Walker
Clayton Kershaw ----------------------------As long as he stays in the National League
Andrew McCutchen
Miguel cabrera
Mike Trout
Derek Jeter
Albert Pujols
Pudge
Chipper
Joe Mauer
Ichiro
Griffey JR
Mariano Rivera
Bryce Harper
Fred McGriff



MY Added list;

Sale
Abreu
Baines
Thome
Raines

LONG STRETCH

A.J.
Buehrle
Konerko

[bigtrain]

Hard to predict until a player has 7 or 8 years in. I remember sorting through cards about 10 to 12 years ago and putting aside cards of players I thought might turn out to be great. Last year about 80% of those cards went into the commons bin. I think a few years ago there was a guy on this board making plans to go to Grady Sizemore's Cooperstown induction.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Hard to predict until a player has 7 or 8 years in. I remember sorting through cards about 10 to 12 years ago and putting aside cards of players I thought might turn out to be great. Last year about 80% of those cards went into the commons bin. I think a few years ago there was a guy on this board making plans to go to Grady Sizemore's Cooperstown induction.

Tom I'm a Sox fan but boy did Sizemore sure have some bad luck. Had injuries not kept him sidelined so much we would be talking about one of the best Center Fielders of that era easily.

[bigtrain]

That's my point, Josh. Anything can happen in baseball.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Woulda coulda shoulda.

Chris Sale has 56 wins. Why are we even talking about him? Revisit in 5 years.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Woulda coulda shoulda.

Chris Sale has 56 wins. Why are we even talking about him? Revisit in 5 years.

Then what about Harper, Springer, Trout, etc ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Then what about Harper, Springer, Trout, etc ?

My argument has been that it's much too early on those guys, see posts above.

[packs]

Even if something happens to Trout and he for some reason goes down hill, I think he'd still hold a Don Mattingly-like stature in the hobby. I don't think the same goes for Harper or Kershaw though. And especially not Springer.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Halladay had a phenomenal winning percentage but barely passed 200 wins with a relatively short career -- borderline I think. I just don't see Molina -- 100 HR in 12 years so far, .736 OPS, .284 BA. There is a whole host of catchers with stats like that, or better, that aren't in.

Preface this with saying I am in St. Louis.
The problem with the anti (Yadier) Molina camp is that, as with any catcher, you can't just look at offense. Molina has been the team captain since he joined the team in 2004.

Molina has is ranked 18 all time in putouts and the only active player ahead of him (Pierzynski) has 6 more years then him (the least amount of years ahead of him is 3 more seasons).

His total zone runs is ranked only second behind Ivan Rodriguez.

His caught stealing percentage leads the way buy 5.97% of the next active catcher.

He also may not have the most impressive offensive numbers, but they aren't shabby either.

This combined with the fact that he has a .328 BA in 21 World Series games he may have enough to push him over.

And he does this all as a FULL TIME catcher (Molina has the second most games as a Catcher again behind Pierzynsk), having only played 2 full games as a 1st baseman (after starting in 4 and playing in a total 32). Compare this to Posey (someone mentioned may be the best catcher) who has already started 132 games at 1B. Also Posey only has a dWAR of 5, with his best season topping out at 2 (Molina has a career dWAR of 20 with 5 seasons at 2 or higher).

Posey is a good offensive player, but I predict he will be moved to a full time 1B position to keep him playing as happens to most catchers with better offense than defense.

All this said I don't think this makes him a sure shot. I believe he needs a few more decent seasons to make it more clear that he deserves to be in the ranks of the other catcher greats, but he is certainly shown he has what it takes thus far.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa
Mark McGwire
Barry Bonds
Juan Gonzalez
Dave Justice
Kenny Lofton
Buster Posey
Kevin Millwood-
Nick Markakis--Maybe not so much
Darryl Strawberry
Elvis Andrus--
Andruw Jones -------------Try Torii Hunter
George Springer
Justin Morneau
David Ortiz
Larry Walker
Clayton Kershaw ----------------------------As long as he stays in the National League
Andrew McCutchen
Miguel cabrera
Mike Trout
Derek Jeter
Albert Pujols
Pudge
Chipper
Joe Mauer
Ichiro
Griffey JR
Mariano Rivera
Bryce Harper
Fred McGriff



MY Added list;

Sale
Abreu
Baines
Thome
Raines

LONG STRETCH

A.J.
Buehrle
Konerko

So Bonds (Yes PEDs but who cares he was light years better than everyone else taking them) doesn't get in and Harold Baines does? If this happens The HOF has zero credit in my book. We should be talking who to take out not trying fit more guys in.

BTW I can't think of a single White Sox player who I think isn't in yet deserves to be. Maybe Raines but thats it.