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Old 05-20-2015, 09:31 AM
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Default E222 AWH and AWA Caramels...AWA is no miss print...

As I continue to help with cataloging a type collection coming to market I am doing more and more research. With the write up of the E222s (AWH Caramels), one of the things that was originally written was that there was only 1 known AWA back, which was corrected to now understanding there are at least 3 known. What hasn't been known is what the super rare AWA has stood for. Originally it was thought to be a typo but with the uncovering of the other 2, approximately 5 yrs ago, we now know it probably wasn't a typo. I have a theory that I believe might hold water for that initial. Arthur W. Havens was the maker and his initials AWH are on the back of the cards (except the 3 with AWA). Thanks to Tim Cath.ey and OldCardboard Magazine (issue 23) we now know he had children, 3 sons. They were Oscar, Arthur E. and Wilbur. I think there is a chance the AWA was the first initials of himself and two of his sons, as is commonly seen in business. So the AWA could have been Arthur (Sr.), Wibur, and Arthur E. (jr.)....giving it the AWA back. I am sure this thread will get all of the attention of cows chewing their cud but hey, no worries. I am still having fun!!

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Old 05-20-2015, 09:36 AM
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So he didn't like his other son Oscar?
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:38 AM
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So he didn't like his other son Oscar?
Maybe Oscar wasn't interested in the business? It happens all of the time where a father has a child working with them but not the other of his children.
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:20 AM
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Was that before AWH ?
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Old 05-20-2015, 11:34 AM
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Was that before AWH ?
No idea if the AWH or AWA came first but to me it would make sense the AWA came first. Then maybe the 3rd brother got upset and the dad said screw it, and made it only his initials? Who knows....
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:03 PM
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Probably started as Dad's name and then the names of his first two sons. The third may have not even been born yet....
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:07 PM
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Probably started as Dad's name and then the names of his first two sons. The third may have not even been born yet....
They had 3 sons, Oscar (b.1891), Arhur E. (b.1892) and Wilbur (b.1898).
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:13 PM
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Very interesting. I have always been fascinated with the E222's. I didnt know 2 more were discovered. Thanks for sharing Leon and I think you are on to something. The Fulton Press site is close to me as is the old ATC warehouse which is now luxury condo's.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Maybe Oscar wasn't interested in the business?
Stumbled across this. Read the last couple paragraphs... it looks like Oscar and Arthur worked for their dad but Wilbur did not.


Last edited by ZachS; 05-20-2015 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:35 PM
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I'm reading this family history and his name was incorrectly listed as William Alexander (his father's name was William Alexander Havens). Here is one of the notations in the history:

Quote:
26 Feb 1855 Buena Vista township, Saginaw county, Michigan, The Bible record has him as William Alexander which is incorrect and caused many problem for Dawn and Robin Havens Floyd in finding this man. It appears that he was born on a Monday.
So in at least one official record the Havens was dropped from his name. Maybe this was some kind of joke in regards to that?

A.W.H. - Arthur William Havens

A.W.A. - Arthur William Alexander ???

Or maybe a tribute to his father... a combination of their first and middle names. Arthur William/William Alexander.


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Originally Posted by Leon View Post
No idea if the AWH or AWA came first but to me it would make sense the AWA came first. Then maybe the 3rd brother got upset and the dad said screw it, and made it only his initials? Who knows....
Or maybe the A.W.A. came first and was just a misprint and later corrected to A.W.H.?

Last edited by ZachS; 05-20-2015 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachS View Post
I'm reading this family history and his name was incorrectly listed as William Alexander (his father's name was William Alexander Havens). Here is one of the notations in the history:



So in at least one official record the Havens was dropped from his name. Maybe this was some kind of joke in regards to that?

A.W.H. - Arthur William Havens

A.W.A. - Arthur William Alexander ???

Or maybe the A.W.A. came first and was just a misprint and later corrected to A.W.H.?
Well, maybe but they don't look like misprints and there are 3 of them. I think it is possible they decided against whatever AWA stood for and changed it. Not a big deal.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:44 PM
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I have never seen either AWH or AWA. Thanks for posting Leon, definitely not boring!
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Well, maybe but they don't look like misprints and there are 3 of them. I think it is possible they decided against whatever AWA stood for and changed it. Not a big deal.
Leon, I don't think he meant it as a misprint, but more as the printer put an "A" at the end instead of putting an "H" at the end, then when it was discovered after the first printing, they fixed it and put an "H." I see what you are saying, it is clearly an "A," but just like with Doyle, N.Y. Natl, printers make errors. It would make sense, because there are more of the A.W.H. than A.W.A. cards out there.
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:05 PM
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Hey Leon,
Everyone knows that Oscar was a grouch....

Hope you are well Brian

PS I love this set... Look forward to seeing you in Chicago...
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjs View Post
Leon, I don't think he meant it as a misprint, but more as the printer put an "A" at the end instead of putting an "H" at the end, then when it was discovered after the first printing, they fixed it and put an "H." I see what you are saying, it is clearly an "A," but just like with Doyle, N.Y. Natl, printers make errors. It would make sense, because there are more of the A.W.H. than A.W.A. cards out there.
I agree with that...

and Brian, good to hear from you and hope to see you in Chitown....
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Old 05-20-2015, 08:19 PM
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A fun read for sure.

Can you imagine what a splash it would make if there were a T206 Piedmount back?

Thanks Leon.
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:41 PM
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Leon, I continue to suspect that the "A.W.A." is merely due to a typesetting error. Also, I was not previously aware that 2 additional AWAs are known to exist. Questions re the 3 known AWAs:
(1) Are all 3 AWA cards of McCauley?
(2) Do all 3 AWA cards have the exact same back design?

Val
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ValKehl View Post
Leon, I continue to suspect that the "A.W.A." is merely due to a typesetting error. Also, I was not previously aware that 2 additional AWAs are known to exist. Questions re the 3 known AWAs:
(1) Are all 3 AWA cards of McCauley?
(2) Do all 3 AWA cards have the exact same back design?

Val
Hi Val
Maybe they were an error but we will probably never know. With 3 them it seems less likely it was a pure printing error but it could be....Here they are where McKee posted them for another hobbyist who is a member but doesn't post. I think one is Shaughnessey and one is McCauley......They have the same design.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=e222


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Old 05-22-2015, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
As I continue to help with cataloging a type collection coming to market I am doing more and more research. With the write up of the E222s (AWH Caramels), one of the things that was originally written was that there was only 1 known AWA back, which was corrected to now understanding there are at least 3 known. What hasn't been known is what the super rare AWA has stood for. Originally it was thought to be a typo but with the uncovering of the other 2, approximately 5 yrs ago, we now know it probably wasn't a typo. I have a theory that I believe might hold water for that initial. Arthur W. Havens was the maker and his initials AWH are on the back of the cards (except the 3 with AWA). Thanks to Tim Cath.ey and OldCardboard Magazine (issue 23) we now know he had children, 3 sons. They were Oscar, Arthur E. and Wilbur. I think there is a chance the AWA was the first initials of himself and two of his sons, as is commonly seen in business. So the AWA could have been Arthur (Sr.), Wibur, and Arthur E. (jr.)....giving it the AWA back. I am sure this thread will get all of the attention of cows chewing their cud but hey, no worries. I am still having fun!!


I was going to comment on this, but I am distracted by the CCC (Cows Chewing Cud) tournament on ESPN 8 - The Ocho.
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:13 PM
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Leon, many thanks for jogging my Alzheimer's-like memory by providing the link to the 2011 thread in which Dan M. showed the other 2 known A.W.A. cards. The fact that I am fascinated by the E222 cards and that I even posted in this 2011 thread gives you a good indication as to how pathetic my memory is!

That all 3 known A.W.A. cards have the exact same back design furthers my belief that this is merely a typesetting error. I suspect that one print run was erroneously done with the A.W.A. backs, even though not all 3 card fronts have the same color tinting, and that Arthur W. Havens likely did not become aware of this error until these cards had already been distributed.

While I am saddened to learn that you are parting with your incredible type collection, I'm curious to see how your E222s fare (I assume each of your E222s will be a single lot), as I've never seem so many E222s come to market at the same time.
Best,
Val
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