1989 Topps oddity

[ALR-bishop]

[steve B]

Is that printed on the back of the cardstock?

The back should have the white coated side showing.

Or is it on some different cardboard?

Very cool printing error. I've never seen one printed on the wrong sides, but have seen an ad for a handful of 72s that were like that. The price was way too much at the time.

Printed on other cardstock could happen if there was a protector sheet as part of how the cardstock was packaged and it got used. I have a postcard back that's on packing material. It's the only one of those I've seen.

Steve B

[steve B]

Just realized it can't be either because the lettering and uniform is white.

What the heck is that?!

Steve B

[ALR-bishop]

The back is normal. Some sort of test or prototype design ?

[brewing]

Duh! That's the gold border version. There's also a blue, red, and purple bordered version too. The double chrome refractor numbered to 25 is the one you want though. Unless of course you are lucky enough to get the one with an authentic jock strap swatch.

[ALR-bishop]

Guaranteed worn ?

[bn2cardz]

Do you have back scans?

[Jim65]

Looks like the cardboard stock didn't get the white coating before printing.

As a Mets collector I would love to find a card like that.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Looks like the cardboard stock didn't get the white coating before printing.

As a Mets collector I would love to find a card like that.

As Steve pointed out if that was the case the uniform (and the topps logo) should be brown. White isn't a printed color. White is revealed as blank spots where the rest of the colors are printed.

[ALR-bishop]

Seller believed it to be a proof/prototype card that came from Topps Vault. He said he had others...all from sheet F. I mentioned earlier that the back is like my regular Elster card. This is the back of the gold border version

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

As Steve pointed out if that was the case the uniform (and the topps logo) should be brown. White isn't a printed color. White is revealed as blank spots where the rest of the colors are printed.

The card stock is white on 1 side and plain on the other, the white border is not printed on with other colors, its already there before the pic is printed.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Jim65

The card stock is white on 1 side and plain on the other, the white border is not printed on with other colors, its already there before the pic is printed.

They wouldn't do just the white boarder. They would lay down a white coating then print the other colors over the top. The way you are suggesting they would do the white boarder, then lay down the other colors on top of a cardboard color yet still print the white topps logo as well as the uniform... there is no white ink in the color process. White has to be laid down first then printed on. So why would they do the borders, and then print the white inside of that separate?

[ALR-bishop]

...on ebay is shoehart

[nolemmings]

or shoeheart

[ALR-bishop]

......that

[con40]

The stock Topps used from 1952 through 1991 is called C1S clay-coated chipboard. It's cheap cardboard stock made from unbleached "chips" of wood pulp (the garbage screened away from higher quality stock). This chipboard is then skinned with a thin clay-coated (giving it good ink holdout) white stock. The two stocks are adhered to make the final sheet.

If this Elster card truly has a chipboard back, chipboard border, and white clay coat under the printed area, the only way it could have been made was by removing the white stock in the border area.

There is a chemical process to achieve this look. Kevin Saucier knew how to do it. What I don't know is if it can be done in such a precise manner.

On the other hand, if this is a gold or tan color in the border area, then it would indicate that the card was printed with a fifth color (a solid tan ink) to fill in the border areas. If so, it's possible that Tops could have masked up a 132-card full sheet (or 66-card half sheet) and printed all the borders on each card. When trimmed, this is what the final cards would look like. If that's the case, there should be more of these out there. Even on a test basis, Topps would have printed at least 100-200 sheets.

[ALR-bishop]

Keith-- seller claimed he had several of them, all from F sheet

[Footballdude]

Would be interesting to see the border area magnified, like 60x or so. Not sure if a typical flatbed scanner can get that close, but one of those Intel microscopes (QX3 or QX5) sure would. I'd be curious to see if the border has a dot pattern or is solid colored.

[jacksoncoupage]

Someone had a partial sheet of these a few years ago. I believe they were posting on the PSA CU forums about it. They had one of these gold bordered sheets cut up and the singles sold off on ebay. The same person also had a blackless sheet (or partial sheet) from 1989 Topps as well, which also was cut up and sold on ebay as singles.

[philliesphan]

Al-

I have a Nick Leyva 1989 Topps just like your gold Elster-

[davidsb]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

It looks to me like someone took an exacto knife around the inked part of the card and peeled away the white border. It would have taken a long time to get that precise. But look how thin the red border is on the 'gold' card compared to the normal card, especially on the bottom.

I think I will try to duplicate this theory tonight.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by davidsb

It looks to me like someone took an exacto knife around the inked part of the card and peeled away the white border. It would have taken a long time to get that precise. But look how thin the red border is on the 'gold' card compared to the normal card, especially on the bottom.

I think I will try to duplicate this theory tonight.

Please save yourself the work. Besides the fact that I have seen a partial uncut sheet of these, do you really think that someone is out there xacto-knifing 1989 Topps Kevin Elster and Nick Leyva cards and painting/foiling them?

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

Please save yourself the work. Besides the fact that I have seen a partial uncut sheet of these, do you really think that someone is out there xacto-knifing 1989 Topps Kevin Elster and Nick Leyva cards and painting/foiling them?

[mrmopar]

I bought a couple from shoe heart on ebay this year as well for the variety and because they actually look really cool. There was no competition on either when I bought them, which surprised me. I thought there would be, but maybe since they were so unusual, maybe people thought they were home made or fake some how.

They are all the same glossiness and there is no missing layers that the naked eye could detect. mine have some light creasing, similar to what i have seen on sheet cut cards. I'm guessing this was some sort of test sheet that made it's way into someone's hands to be cut and sold later on.

[onlychild]

Yes, there is a chemical process to remove the ink that looks pretty cool. It would probably not be a problem on the straight borders as in the Elster card. Removing around the letters and difficult curves would be tough. Not sure it could be done.

Kevin Saucier

[ALR-bishop]

Kevin -- thanks for chiming in here. What are you up to these days ?

[onlychild]

Been away from this hobby for some time. Here is one card I've had for years with the ink chemically removed. Makes for a neat novelty.

[frankhardy]

I was able to snag a John Morris for my Cardinals collection this week. Any more news on these?