Need help identifying 19th century baseball team

[northwestlady]

I have a albumen photo that I would like help identifying team, date. There are names listed on back including what looks like Dan Sweeney, Louis O'Connor, Chas Schanne, Frank Whalen, John Mc Cur and others. Photographer name is M. Van Norman, possibly another letter in front of the M. Photo measures 16x13 cardboard mount 18x15. Any help would be appreciated Thanks

[drcy]

It resembles a college team and is an 1890s photo. There was a late 1800s photographer "John M. van Norman" in Ontario. It looks as if perhaps a 'J' s hidden under the glue. And there is one Ontario university that starts with a C: Carleton University.

I'm not saying that's what it is. Just offering it as an idea. I have no knowledge if Carleton's baseball history, though baseball was popular in Canada back then and there were Canadian minor league teams.

If you cannot determine the team, much of the value is in that it's an oversized 19th century baseball photo. It's very large for a 19h century photo, and large size itself has value due to the rarity and display value. Many 19th century photos are of unknown teams and players, and they still have value.

[Runscott]

Agree with David - definitely looks like 'not a town team', so probably college, simply because there are too many players in the photo (not a strict rule).

[smokelessjoe]

Hi Northwestlady,

I was doing some digging around and while I do not believe this photographer is related to yours I did find the attached photo to be very interesting. Not much help at this time but we'll see....

[barrysloate]

It looks to be about 1895, and the man seated in the front, second from left, appears to be African-American. Wish there was a city along with the photographer's name.

The photographer is probably "John Milton Van Norman" also went by Van Orman. He immigrated to the US from Canada in 1884 and is listed as a "photographer" in the 1886 Buffalo City Directory.

The players are a mystery; so I thought I'd start with an easy one : Dan Sweeney played one season for the Louisville Colonels in 1895 according to baseball reference. Can't confirm it's the same man, the image is pretty poor on baseball reference but he was known as "Midget" Sweeney when he played for Louisville according to the Washington Times (April 28, 1895).

Sweeney was born in Philadelphia. As mentioned before I thought school team. So I started there. Found a Louis O'Connor, Frank Whalen, Charles Schanne (Shane), & John McCur in Philadelphia in the 1880 & 1900 census (all born between 1867-1869). But, no Baritot, though that was a very popular name in Buffalo. With Baritot and Adler there were just too many names to cover. Noone named Champalan in Pennsylvania but there was a Joseph Kimpelen born in Philadelphia 1868.

Photographer is from Buffalo, but many of the players may be from Philadelphia......Not sure how that makes sense, but hope that helps. Good luck, and wonderful photo.

[Butch7999]

It was the Bidwell name that caught our attention, a prominent name in Buffalo history. Interesting that there are other Buffalo connections,
as well, among the names on the roster. Factoid: Canisius College has been a major institution in Buffalo since 1870...

Originally Posted by Butch7999

It was the Bidwell name that caught our attention, a prominent name in Buffalo history. Interesting that there are other Buffalo connections,
as well, among the names on the roster. Factoid: Canisius College has been a major institution in Buffalo since 1870...

Honestly I'm from central Washington, know nothing of Philadelphia or western New York, and ran with raw data, but Canisius is brilliant!! Occam's Razor....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

Hi Northwestlady,

I was doing some digging around and while I do not believe this photographer is related to yours I did find the attached photo to be very interesting. Not much help at this time but we'll see....

That's an interesting dress..and head thingy....

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

That's an interesting dress..and head thingy....

Leon, don't get any ideas. We do not need Net54 dresses littered with images from your collection. Just my humble opinion of course. Markets can be fickle, especially ours.

And that heady thing would destroy the card market as well. Everyone would just make their own.

[northwestlady]

Thanks for all the great info. Still can't identify school/college. I'm thinking about selling, wanted to get as much info as possible. I would like to know what fair market value would be. Thanks again