Will we ever again see the likes of these true-blue Power Hitters ?

[tedzan]

You can call me a sentimental "traditionalist", or whatever. So, tell me what is the probability that BB will see power sluggers like these guys hitting near 600-foot drives......
without the use of "performance enhancing drugs" ? ?

Ruth's HR (right-centerfield) would have travelled 600 ft into River Avenue if the old Scoreboard was not there.

Mantle's monster HR hit the right-field roof facade 390 ft away....and, was projected that it would have travelled more than 600 ft (had it cleared Yankee Stadium).






TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nobody ever accused Kingman of taking PED, did they?

[DerekMichael]

I loathe the Marlins, but I would kill for Giancarlo Stanton. That is true power!

Derek

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by DerekMichael

I loathe the Marlins, but I would kill for Giancarlo Stanton. That is true power!

Derek

Thats the guy i thought of

[ErikV]

Hi Ted,

Sad commentary, but true. While there are players, (ie Yasiel Puig)
who are power hitters, and who could probably legitimately hit a 600
foot homerun, we have arrived at the day and age when there will
always be those who look at these achievements with a raised eyebrow.
Just last season Jack Clark accused Albert Pujols of using PED's. Indeed
the days of Ruth, Mantle and Luzinski not being questioned about their
abilities/achievements are long behind us.

As advanced and technological savvy as we are in 2014, it is a sad
truth that even something as enjoyable as watching professional sports
has been tarnished. I guess this is what we deserve as a society who
is flip about PED use and votes to legalize pot.

I suppose that's why there are those of us who enjoy collecting vintage
cards. I think to some degree we are trying to connect to a more
innocent time when the difference between right and wrong wasn't so
hazy.

ErikV

[Section103]

Why not? Players and the general population are bigger and stronger now than they were then (with or without PEDs).

[ullmandds]

Yes...I agree!!!

Originally Posted by Section103

Why not? Players and the general population are bigger and stronger now than they were then (with or without PEDs).

[D. Bergin]

Put Mickey Mantle in today's game without PED's and he would never be able to escape the cloud. He could not drink, keep himself healthier, benefit from modern surgery, hit 750 HR's and might never sniff the Hall of Fame even if he stayed clean as a whistle.

We see guys like Chris Davis who have never been implicated in anything answering questions about PEDs every day. What makes anybody think Mantle would be any different?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Put Mickey Mantle in today's game without PED's and he would never be able to escape the cloud. He could not drink, keep himself healthier, benefit from modern surgery, hit 750 HR's and might never sniff the Hall of Fame even if he stayed clean as a whistle.

We see guys like Chris Davis who have never been implicated in anything answering questions about PEDs every day. What makes anybody think Mantle would be any different?

And who knows which of these guys would have stayed clean? It's nice to romanticize athletes of the past as having more character, but at least some of that is nostalgia bias.

[z28jd]

Since PEDs were brought up, does anyone else wonder how every other major sport has almost no issues compared to MLB, yet MLB is the one that gets killed because they tried to clean up the sport? Why is it that people have no problem watching football and all these crazy things happen with huge humans doing ridiculous things and NO ONE cares. No one in their right mind can believe the NFL cracks down on players with the size they are and punishment they take.

It's mind-boggling to me that baseball does the most against PEDs, yet they also get killed the most. Every off-season, the talk is PEDs for the last ten years or so.

It's like the other three major sports all said, thanks for taking the heat MLB, we will be over here in the corner ignoring everything, occasionally finding one guy so it looks like we are doing something.

I never understood how the sport that does more than the other three major sports combined, gets the black eye.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Since PEDs were brought up, does anyone else wonder how every other major sport has almost no issues compared to MLB, yet MLB is the one that gets killed because they tried to clean up the sport? Why is it that people have no problem watching football and all these crazy things happen with huge humans doing ridiculous things and NO ONE cares. No one in their right mind can believe the NFL cracks down on players with the size they are and punishment they take.

It's a couple things:

1) The NFL routinely busts guys and suspends them. It happens often enough that people are used to it and there's not a lot of drama surrounding it for the most part.

2) The NFL and its fans aren't as stats-driven as MLB and its fans. The magic numbers MEAN something to baseball fans. To football fans? Not so much. What's the record for receiving yards? Pass attempts? Sacks? Most fans don't know. They might know the yardage and TD records since Peyton set them this year but for the most part the records are unknown and not-cared-about. So PED usage that obliterates records, like in baseball, simply doesn't matter to the NFL fan.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Tabe

It's a couple things:

1) The NFL routinely busts guys and suspends them. It happens often enough that people are used to it and there's not a lot of drama surrounding it for the most part.

2) The NFL and its fans aren't as stats-driven as MLB and its fans. The magic numbers MEAN something to baseball fans. To football fans? Not so much. What's the record for receiving yards? Pass attempts? Sacks? Most fans don't know. They might know the yardage and TD records since Peyton set them this year but for the most part the records are unknown and not-cared-about. So PED usage that obliterates records, like in baseball, simply doesn't matter to the NFL fan.

I know there are some guys that get busted in the NFL, but they obviously don't crack down on it, otherwise half the league would be suspended, which is why they probably don't do it. I may have just answered my own question there. I could look it up, but off-hand, I don't remember any NBA or NHL steroid suspensions.

The second part is probably correct, I just don't understand why baseball gets 99% of the PED attention between the four major sports. I would doubt they have half the users of football and no more than either of the other two leagues

[glchen]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Since PEDs were brought up, does anyone else wonder how every other major sport has almost no issues compared to MLB, yet MLB is the one that gets killed because they tried to clean up the sport? Why is it that people have no problem watching football and all these crazy things happen with huge humans doing ridiculous things and NO ONE cares. No one in their right mind can believe the NFL cracks down on players with the size they are and punishment they take.

It's mind-boggling to me that baseball does the most against PEDs, yet they also get killed the most. Every off-season, the talk is PEDs for the last ten years or so.

It's like the other three major sports all said, thanks for taking the heat MLB, we will be over here in the corner ignoring everything, occasionally finding one guy so it looks like we are doing something.

I never understood how the sport that does more than the other three major sports combined, gets the black eye.

I think it's multiple things.

First, as has been mentioned, numbers mean a lot more in baseball. Most everyone knows the season and career home run records. The home run chase by McGwire and Sosa was a huge deal where hoards of fans were watching and following each at bat. The only thing somewhat comparable in football are the touchdown and passing records (and rushing yards), but very few people were following Manning as he was breaking record. People congratulated him, but it wasn't front page news like the home run chase. So when fans find out that these hallowed records are being broken by "cheaters," it leads a much more raw feeling in people's mouths. "I was so excited when I was following the chase, and now I found out these guys were juiced...."

Second, and related to the previous one, I think the baseball Hall of Fame is the most respected out of all sports, especially because of its long history. Therefore, when fans think that players got in unfairly, they are more upset.

Another thing I think is due to the longevity and player contracts in baseball. You have huge guaranteed contracts in baseball. Baseball players can play until they are nearly forty, and make huge money for many of those years. If they gain those contracts by juicing, it simply seems unfair. They don't get paid for their suspension, but they still get paid plenty when the penalty is over. I think I read somewhere that said ARod is still guaranteed 63 million after his one year suspension is over. Other players like Mickey Cabrera and Johnny Peralta (sp?) were still given large free agent contracts immediately following a PED suspension. For football, the career is much shorter, and other than the signing bonus, the contract is usually not guaranteed. Football also seems like a much more "dangerous" sport, so most fans give them a pass as they feel they earned it due to the nature of their sport.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think it's multiple things.

First, as has been mentioned, numbers mean a lot more in baseball. Most everyone knows the season and career home run records. The home run chase by McGwire and Sosa was a huge deal where hoards of fans were watching and following each at bat. The only thing somewhat comparable in football are the touchdown and passing records (and rushing yards), but very few people were following Manning as he was breaking record. People congratulated him, but it wasn't front page news like the home run chase. So when fans find out that these hallowed records are being broken by "cheaters," it leads a much more raw feeling in people's mouths. "I was so excited when I was following the chase, and now I found out these guys were juiced...."

Second, and related to the previous one, I think the baseball Hall of Fame is the most respected out of all sports, especially because of its long history. Therefore, when fans think that players got in unfairly, they are more upset.

Another thing I think is due to the longevity and player contracts in baseball. You have huge guaranteed contracts in baseball. Baseball players can play until they are nearly forty, and make huge money for many of those years. If they gain those contracts by juicing, it simply seems unfair. They don't get paid for their suspension, but they still get paid plenty when the penalty is over. I think I read somewhere that said ARod is still guaranteed 63 million after his one year suspension is over. Other players like Mickey Cabrera and Johnny Peralta (sp?) were still given large free agent contracts immediately following a PED suspension. For football, the career is much shorter, and other than the signing bonus, the contract is usually not guaranteed. Football also seems like a much more "dangerous" sport, so most fans give them a pass as they feel they earned it due to the nature of their sport.

Good answer, thanks. I don't watch much football, usually only when I'm forced to, no real interest in the sport. Watching it the other day was just sad. I think I saw about 15 guys leave the game injured between the two games and the announcers are so used to it, they just move on like nothing happened. I'm not sure what parent in their right mind would let their kid play football after watching how many guys leave with concussions. If I had a kid, I'd tell them, you want to play football, do it when you're 18 and old enough to know the consequences of multiple concussions. I would never start them down that path. Just a sad sport to watch.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by z28jd

It's like the other three major sports all said, thanks for taking the heat MLB, we will be over here in the corner ignoring everything, occasionally finding one guy so it looks like we are doing something.

I never understood how the sport that does more than the other three major sports combined, gets the black eye.

I'd give the MLB more props to what it was doing if it wasn't brought to this point kicking and screaming. Selig and the owners had their collective heads up their sand for years until their monopoly was threatened. While they may not have known all the players (no pun intended), they knew full well what was going on until they were "forced" to do something about it. A-Rod is a liar and a cheat, but definitely also a useful target for Selig to exit stage left as being "tough on steroids".

Maybe we need one of our esteemed board members to become a real commissioner?

[novakjr]

Bo Jackson had some serious power. Agree with Kingman too. Josh Hamilton wasn't exactly hitting little choppers all over the field.. Albert Belle(ped suspicions aside, mostly due to his attitude) hit some absolute f'ing rockets..

[RTK]

Baseball Almanac;

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/art_hr.shtml

[Luke]

Originally Posted by z28jd

Since PEDs were brought up, does anyone else wonder how every other major sport has almost no issues compared to MLB, yet MLB is the one that gets killed because they tried to clean up the sport? Why is it that people have no problem watching football and all these crazy things happen with huge humans doing ridiculous things and NO ONE cares. No one in their right mind can believe the NFL cracks down on players with the size they are and punishment they take.

It's mind-boggling to me that baseball does the most against PEDs, yet they also get killed the most. Every off-season, the talk is PEDs for the last ten years or so.

It's like the other three major sports all said, thanks for taking the heat MLB, we will be over here in the corner ignoring everything, occasionally finding one guy so it looks like we are doing something.

I never understood how the sport that does more than the other three major sports combined, gets the black eye.

I think the reason for this is that numbers are so sacred in baseball. Record-holders are revered more than in any other sport. In football, no one cares who has the most rushing TDs, so if someone comes along and breaks the record looking like they stepped out of a comic book, there aren't a bunch of fans who are offended. They are just entertained. With baseball, you grow up memorizing all the numbers and it really doesn't feel right to have a guy with a size 9 head break 755.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

I think the reason for this is that numbers are so sacred in baseball. Record-holders are revered more than in any other sport. In football, no one cares who has the most rushing TDs, so if someone comes along and breaks the record looking like they stepped out of a comic book, there aren't a bunch of fans who are offended. They are just entertained. With baseball, you grow up memorizing all the numbers and it really doesn't feel right to have a guy with a size 9 head break 755.

It's always been hard for me to find a hat that fits.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ErikV

Hi Ted,

Sad commentary, but true. While there are players, (ie Yasiel Puig)
who are power hitters, and who could probably legitimately hit a 600
foot homerun, we have arrived at the day and age when there will
always be those who look at these achievements with a raised eyebrow.
Just last season Jack Clark accused Albert Pujols of using PED's. Indeed
the days of Ruth, Mantle and Luzinski not being questioned about their
abilities/achievements are long behind us.

As advanced and technological savvy as we are in 2014, it is a sad
truth that even something as enjoyable as watching professional sports
has been tarnished. I guess this is what we deserve as a society who
is flip about PED use and votes to legalize pot.

I suppose that's why there are those of us who enjoy collecting vintage
cards. I think to some degree we are trying to connect to a more
innocent time when the difference between right and wrong wasn't so
hazy.

ErikV

Well stated Erik

I grew up watching DiMaggio, Ted Williams, Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Stan Musial, etc. play the game....and YES, those were "innocent times."

They were really great years to be watching BB. I may be an old "dinosaur" now; but, I would not trade those years for anything.


T-Rex TED

[WhenItWasAHobby]

When it comes to tape-measure home runs, Willie Stargell was unrivaled.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

When it comes to tape-measure home runs, Willie Stargell was unrivaled.

I would think Cecil Fielder and the aforementioned Dave Kingman would rival him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

I would think Cecil Fielder and the aforementioned Dave Kingman would rival him.

Yeah Cecil had some serious power. Reggie hit a few long ones in the day as well.

[midwaylandscaping]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

When it comes to tape-measure home runs, Willie Stargell was unrivaled.

First guy I thought of not being old enough to have seen Mantle, much less Ruth, Foxx etc. Willie was pretty intimidating.

[packs]

There have been a few NFL PED suspensions this year but I don't think it's had a huge effect. Most NFL suspensions are a result of violating the substance abuse policy. But they don't typically say what that substance was.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by ErikV

Hi Ted,

..... Indeed the days of Ruth, Mantle and Luzinski not being questioned about their abilities/achievements ..................

ErikV

I honestly have never seen these three names in the same sentence before.

Mantle and Luzinski maybe, but Ruth........Come on now!!

My apologies to all and my eternal gratitude to Pete.

[ullmandds]

Frank...are u feeling ok? you're spelling stinks today!!!!!

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Frank...are u feeling ok? you're spelling stinks today!!!!!

Im rubbin off on him

[Luke]

Haha! All those jokes probably take up quite a bit of real estate up there :-D.
I thought I was in on the first page. Wouldn't have even bothered to post if I'd seen that we'd already discussed Mantle, Ruth, and Luzinski.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[packs]

Baseball is hallowed ground and has been since the Civil War. The reason baseball is held to such a high standard is because it has held a prominent position in every day American life for more than 150 years and its popularity immediately followed the Civil War, one of the most tragic times in the history of our country.

Let's not forget that when Jackie Robinson broke baseball's color line the whole country watched. Stepping onto that baseball field was not a sporting event. It was a historical event for America and signified sweeping changes to come in American society.

And that's why baseball will forever be the most sacred sport in this country. It is not just a sport and when you cheat it, you are cheating America as a whole. These kinds of feelings are not stirred up by football, basketball or hockey. Baseball will forever be different. That's why the HOF voting is so scrutinized. No one cares about the football or basketball HOF.

[ullmandds]

While I kinda agree with the sentiment below...what happens down the road when people like me...I'm 44...are long gone and there are no longer any people living who experienced Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier.

Today's kids care more about basketball, football, hockey. I see a day...although I will most likely be long dead...where baseball is no longer considered America's pastime...maybe that it once was as a footnote in a book...but will be replaced by another sport.


"Let's not forget that when Jackie Robinson broke baseball's color line the whole country watched. Stepping onto that baseball field was not a sporting event. It was a historical event for America and signified sweeping changes to come in American society.

And that's why baseball will forever be the most sacred sport in this country. It is not just a sport and when you cheat it, you are cheating America as a whole. These kinds of feelings are not stirred up by football, basketball or hockey. Baseball will forever be different. That's why the HOF voting is so scrutinized. No one cares about the football or basketball HOF. "

[packs]

I agree with what you're saying too. I just hope baseball experiences a kind of renaissance in the near future. I can see football taking some kind of hit in the near future with the amount of information being released regarding head injuries. Every now and then you hear an ex-player talk about doing everything all over again and never playing football.

[peterb69]

Buck O'Neil quote:

I heard Ruth hit the ball. I'd never heard that sound before, and I was outside the fence but it was the sound of the bat that I had never heard before in my life. And the next time I heard that sound, I'm in Washington, D.C., in the dressing room and I heard that sound of a bat hitting the ball — sounded just like when Ruth hit the ball. I rushed out, got on nothing but a jockstrap, I rushed out — we were playing the Homestead Grays and it was Josh Gibson hitting the ball. And so I heard this sound again.

Now I didn't hear it anymore. I'm in Kansas City. I'm working for the Cubs at the time, and I was upstairs and I was coming down for the batting practice. And before I could get out there I heard this sound one more time that I had heard only twice in my life. Now, you know who this is? Bo Jackson. Bo Jackson swinging that bat. And now I heard this sound... And it was just a thrill for me. I said, here it is again. I heard it again. I only heard it three times in my life.