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  #1  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:28 PM
bcbgcbrcb bcbgcbrcb is offline
Phil Garry
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Default Hake's Auction Winners

Anyone pick up anything in Hake's last night? Another nice group of Negro League memorabilia.
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
Anyone pick up anything in Hake's last night? Another nice group of Negro League memorabilia.
I forgot about it.....didn't see much written about it? I guess I missed it .
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 PM
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Great stuff. They got one wrong, though. They mention Grant "Homerun" Johnson in this PC, lot #207. He's not in it. Price went really high I thought and feel like much of the cost can be contributed to the ID.


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  #4  
Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 PM
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Not BB but................



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  #5  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:52 PM
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Default I tried to win...

I REALLY tried to win a Punch, but fell short like always...Maybe some day...

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  #6  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:18 PM
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I spent hours identifying players on this postcard. My main goal was to determine if Frank Grant was pictured (I determined with a good deal of certainty that he was not). Among the players that I am very comfortable with are:

Harry Buckner (front row, far right)
Bobby Winston (front row, second from left)
Pat Patterson (back row, second from right)
Ray Wilson (back row, second from left)
Johnny Hill (front row, far left)
E.B. Lamar (back row, third from left)

I believe that Grant Johnson is pictured as indicated in the auction description, see accompanying photo taken from Sol White's book published in 1907. There are two players on the postcard with uniforms different than the others, which look to me like Philadelphia Giants uniforms from 1905 which would make sense for Johnson. The photo of Johnson provided by Jason looks like it was from several years earlier and does look a good deal different.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1905 Cuban X-Giants.jpg (79.7 KB, 411 views)
File Type: jpg Grant_Home_Run_Johnson2.jpg (14.4 KB, 408 views)

Last edited by bcbgcbrcb; 11-14-2012 at 04:25 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:30 PM
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Johnson's size of ears, upturned nose at end showing nostrils, downturned brow ridge, deep set eyes, size of lips among other things make me think the man in the PC is NOT Johnson. The only similarity in features that I see are the color of skin and the mustache.

I also don't see how you can say that's Harry Buckner. The references for Buckner are so scarce that while it might be, I'd be far from comfortable with the ID.



My only point with all of this is that we shouldn't ascribe ID's which drive up prices if there is no certainty. That postcard was a $1200-$2000 postcard that sold for $6000. I think that's out of whack and though I hold Hakes in a very high regard, don't think it is right.

Last edited by Jaybird; 11-14-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:48 PM
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Picked up this mis-identified item:



Now, for nothing more than the satisfaction of knowing you are a know-it-all, who can tell me why the item cannot possibly be as described?

"1x2" w/two 1.5" long stainless steel blades at sides. Belt/money clip on reverse. c. 1959, likely coming off the Dodgers World Series win over the Chicago White Sox in six games. Comes w/original generic box which shows wear and is VG. Knife/clip has nice image of Koufax winding up for a pitch and bears his facsimile signature and "Los Angeles Dodgers - World Champions" text."
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 11-14-2012 at 04:50 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:50 PM
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Actually, I found my other reference of Buckner and think you have something there. With Grant, though, I don't think you can just take one picture of him and ignore the others. While I don't think the batting photo looks at all like him, even if you did, you can't ignore the photo of him where he looks nothing like the man.


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  #10  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:52 PM
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You just need a better image of Buckner, sure looks like him to me.............
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1905 Cuban X-Giants.jpg (79.7 KB, 392 views)
File Type: jpg harry_buckner.jpg (12.4 KB, 390 views)
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:53 PM
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Jason:

I believe that the player in the R P uniform is Rube Foster not Buckner.
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2012, 05:01 PM
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Anyway, back to topic at hand. Hakes always has great items. Wished I had more cash on hand to go higher on this one...


Last edited by Jaybird; 11-14-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-14-2012, 07:53 PM
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Default 1959 World Series

The Dodgers were playing in Memorial Coliseum in 1959. The Koufax picture was taken in Chavez Ravine.
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2012, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
I spent hours identifying players on this postcard. My main goal was to determine if Frank Grant was pictured (I determined with a good deal of certainty that he was not). Among the players that I am very comfortable with are:

Harry Buckner (front row, far right)
Bobby Winston (front row, second from left)
Pat Patterson (back row, second from right)
Ray Wilson (back row, second from left)
Johnny Hill (front row, far left)
E.B. Lamar (back row, third from left)

I believe that Grant Johnson is pictured as indicated in the auction description, see accompanying photo taken from Sol White's book published in 1907. There are two players on the postcard with uniforms different than the others, which look to me like Philadelphia Giants uniforms from 1905 which would make sense for Johnson. The photo of Johnson provided by Jason looks like it was from several years earlier and does look a good deal different.
Phil, how about back row, far left? I've seen that player i.d.'d in two other photos, but can't remember his name. I'll dig around.
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  #15  
Old 11-14-2012, 08:51 PM
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This guy. For me. Thrilled!
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File Type: jpg Biz Mackey.jpg (62.9 KB, 292 views)
File Type: jpg Biz Mackey - back.jpg (56.6 KB, 290 views)
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Picked up this mis-identified item:



Now, for nothing more than the satisfaction of knowing you are a know-it-all, who can tell me why the item cannot possibly be as described?

"1x2" w/two 1.5" long stainless steel blades at sides. Belt/money clip on reverse. c. 1959, likely coming off the Dodgers World Series win over the Chicago White Sox in six games. Comes w/original generic box which shows wear and is VG. Knife/clip has nice image of Koufax winding up for a pitch and bears his facsimile signature and "Los Angeles Dodgers - World Champions" text."
wasnt the 76 ball first used in 1962?
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2012, 04:15 AM
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Scott:

I think it's Danny McClellan (back row, far left) but not 100% sure.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1905 Cuban X-Giants.jpg (79.7 KB, 231 views)
File Type: jpg danny_mcclellan.jpg (22.6 KB, 232 views)

Last edited by bcbgcbrcb; 11-15-2012 at 04:16 AM.
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2012, 04:17 AM
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Nice pick-up, Ken. That was mine, thought it went for quite a cheap price.
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2012, 04:30 AM
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My best guess is Clarence Williams (back row, far right), much older and heavier in the postcard..........
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1905 Cuban X-Giants.jpg (79.7 KB, 231 views)
File Type: jpg clarence_williams.jpg (13.1 KB, 229 views)

Last edited by bcbgcbrcb; 11-15-2012 at 04:30 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-15-2012, 05:17 AM
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How about Bill Jackson (front row, center)
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File Type: jpg 1905 Cuban X-Giants.jpg (79.7 KB, 213 views)
File Type: jpg william_jackson.jpg (11.4 KB, 213 views)
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  #21  
Old 11-15-2012, 05:44 AM
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Could the player pictured in the back row, third from right possibly be Frank Grant? That is the only ID that I am not comfortable with.

There is one player from this team that I have not been able to find an image anywhere for, Robert Jordan. Anyone have a pic of him?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1905 Cuban X-Giants.jpg (79.7 KB, 280 views)
File Type: jpg Grant_Frank_photo.jpg (7.8 KB, 281 views)

Last edited by bcbgcbrcb; 11-15-2012 at 07:08 AM.
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skooter View Post
The Dodgers were playing in Memorial Coliseum in 1959. The Koufax picture was taken in Chavez Ravine.
You are correct, sir! Dodger Stadium opened for business in 1962.
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
Scott:

I think it's Danny McClellan (back row, far left) but not 100% sure.
Phil, it's not McLellan. I think it's this guy (bottom row, 2nd from left). I'll i.d. him for certain sometime today - just need to dig up the other two photos:

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  #24  
Old 11-15-2012, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
Nice pick-up, Ken. That was mine, thought it went for quite a cheap price.
Thank you, Phil! Yeah, I never thought I could acquire one at that price. Curious: Why did you sell it? Did you upgrade?
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2012, 03:26 AM
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Ken:

I replaced it with a team photo.
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  #26  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:43 AM
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Scott:

Looks like a possibility except for the fact that there is no record of Watkins ever playing for the Cuban X-Giants. The Cuban Giants and Genuine Cuban Giants were all different teams. Of course, records from that time are sparse to say the least so anything is possible.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
Scott:

Looks like a possibility except for the fact that there is no record of Watkins ever playing for the Cuban X-Giants. The Cuban Giants and Genuine Cuban Giants were all different teams. Of course, records from that time are sparse to say the least so anything is possible.
Yeah, that picture I posted is not one of the two I was thinking about. The player I'm remembering was very short. I thought he played for one of the Chicago or Kansas City teams, but he's not in any of my photos.

Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me again - would not be the first time.
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  #28  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
Scott:

Looks like a possibility except for the fact that there is no record of Watkins ever playing for the Cuban X-Giants. The Cuban Giants and Genuine Cuban Giants were all different teams. Of course, records from that time are sparse to say the least so anything is possible.
Phil, I found the photo I was thinking of - '06 Philadelphia Giants. I think it's Tom Washington. Riley's book has Washington playing for the Cuban X Giants in 1906, so it fits.

The photo is in Larry Lester's book 'Black Baseball in Chicago', but I can't locate a scan.
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