What I have learned in my time here, so far

[Bocabirdman]

My time here on these boards is still measured in weeks, not even months yet. Members here have welcomed me. I have scored some cool cards over on BST. I am working hard to improve my Monster Number. In addition to these things, I have learned a lot about this hobby that I have loved now for 45 years. There have been interesting threads regarding all facets of collecting. Some of the threads run or ran simultaneously. Since I am a Ten Pin Bowling typist (two fingers and a thumb on one hand), sometimes it is tough for me to type a post while it is still relevant. I will use this thread/post to recap what information I have absorbed.

1. It seems that back in the 1850’s a young, silver-tongued snake oil salesman met up with a lady card mechanic while both were fleeing a town one step ahead of the law. They fell in love and spawned a brood of morally derelict kids who went on to be highwayman, con artists and politicians. Fast forward four generations and we find that the family, now spread all across the country, has cornered the world of sport memorabilia auction houses. Being genetically disposed to working on the shadowy side of the street, they think nothing of shenanigans, getting into bed with those who practice such things or simply turning a blind eye for the right price.

2. The graded card segment of our hobby is showing the strains of growth. It seems that there are not enough qualified graders to handle the steady piles of cards that collectors want to have slabbed. How else to we account for so many cards being re-submitted and receiving a higher grade? These are cards, not fine wine. They do not get better with age. Also, it seems that if you don’t like the grade you received, you simply need to resubmit the card over and over. If you still don’t like the grade, take it to a card show and get it graded there. (See Young, Dmitri).

3. The slab, long thought to be the end-all in card security and guarantee of the entombed card’s authenticity has come under attack. We now have counterfeit flips and bootleg slabs to contend with. Some idle-handed deviant has even figured out how to open a “real” slab so as to slip a lower grade card or even a reprint, in place of the actual graded card. Their handiwork is detectable in person but might be missed on an auction scan.

4. Lastly, and this point seems to be agreed on universally across the rank and file, any auction listing that mentions “cards that were found in Grandpa’s attic” are assuredly fake. A closer examination most likely finds the seller buying reprints using the same account.

When you add all of these points together, there is only one logical conclusion.
The BLACK SWAMP FIND MUST BE BOGUS.

Please accept this post as it was written…..with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

[RobertGT]

I can see where reading these boards daily could give one the impression that this is a corrupt hobby that is only getting worse, but keep in mind that perception may be skewed by the very nature of an online chat board.

It is human nature that the negative aspects of any hobby or endeavor will bubble up to the surface - begging to be exposed - while the daily positive acts and relationships go unreported forever.

The vast majority of people involved in the hobby are COLLECTORS and are outstanding people.

This is still the No. 1 hobby in the world (my biased opinion). Keep educating yourself, use common sense, and you will win every time.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

I can see where reading these boards daily could give one the impression that this is a corrupt hobby that is only getting worse, but keep in mind that perception may be skewed by the very nature of an online chat board.

It is human nature that the negative aspects of any hobby or endeavor will bubble up to the surface - begging to be exposed - while the daily positive acts and relationships go unreported forever.

The vast majority of people involved in the hobby are COLLECTORS and are outstanding people.

This is still the No. 1 hobby in the world (my biased opinion). Keep educating yourself, use common sense, and you will win every time.

Rob, my post was written strictly in jest. There does, however, seem to be more than a couple of alarmists around here.

[sportscardpete]

At the end of the day, if all you have to complain about is certain grading companies misjudging a card by a grade or two, I'd say that you are living a preeeetty good life. Just my opinion.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

At the end of the day, if all you have to complain about is certain grading companies misjudging a card by a grade or two, I'd say that you are living a preeeetty good life. Just my opinion.

Pete, again this was written tongue in cheek, please don't take it as serious complaining. Everything I wrote though, this side of the snakeoil salesan bit, was included because of serious threads debating such things....

[sportscardpete]

Haha no no I'm sorry I was just saying in general. Nothing about your post, which I thought was fantastic btw. Especially the first paragraph

[drc]

Some of the threads-- including the negative, personal complaint and conspiracy threads-- involve just a handful of members. Doesn't automatically reflect the entire board's thoughts.

Some of the complaint threads against an auction house, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. I think some threads involve valid points but the rhetoric can go overboard and overlong.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

Pete, again this was written tongue in cheek, please don't take it as serious complaining. Everything I wrote though, this side of the snakeoil salesan bit, was included because of serious threads debating such things....

And for those that have not been on this board very long, it is worth noting that several GOOD hobby changes have come about because of the alarmists on Net54baseball. I agree that the overwhelming majority of folks in our hobby are really good, honest people. However, in a somewhat unregulated hobby with billions of dollars there will be fraud. It is on us to catch and expose it. In the last 7-8 yrs the authorities have done an admirable job in helping too. However, they are fighting with an under-staffed army in my opinion. If we all do our part to oust the fraud the hobby will be great for many more generations to come. And lastly, I don't mind reiterating the fact that EVERYONE is legally liable for what they say on the internet in public forums (and elsewhere I suppose).

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by drc

Some of the threads-- including the negative, personal complaint and conspiracy threads-- involve just a handful of members. Doesn't automatically reflect the entire board's thoughts.

Some of the complaint threads against an auction house, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

I agree. The negative threads make the occaisional valid point but they tend to get pissy and turn into a headbuttin' match. This whole post of mine may have been a mis-guided idea. I was attempted to point out certain silliness. I guess I can expect PM's frm the Snake Oil Salesman Federation any moment now....

[drc]

Nothing wrong with your initial post. Fair topic even if I didn't straight away get it was tongue in cheek.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I agree. The negative threads make the occaisional valid point but they tend to get pissy and turn into a headbuttin' match. This whole post of mine may have been a mis-guided idea. I was attempted to point out certain silliness. I guess I can expect PM's frm the Snake Oil Salesman Federation any moment now....

I don't think your post was a misguided idea at all. There's nothing wrong with pointing out how some threads can seem to turn a molehill into a mountain. That said, as I new member myself, I am amazed at the knowledge of the regular contributors. I've been a T206 collector off and on for almost 30 years and I've learned a ton over the past month on this board. I especially love seeing the scrap T206 examples and the depth of thought that goes into trying to determine how these cards came to be. Stuff that I've wondered myself for years and never had anyone to ask (none of my friends collect and I bore my wife to tears when talking t206!).

Thanks,

Steve

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I don't think your post was a misguided idea at all. There's nothing wrong with pointing out how some threads can seem to turn a molehill into a mountain. That said, as I new member myself, I am amazed at the knowledge of the regular contributors. I've been a T206 collector off and on for almost 30 years and I've learned a ton over the past month on this board. I especially love seeing the scrap T206 examples and the depth of thought that goes into trying to determine how these cards came to be. Stuff that I've wondered myself for years and never had anyone to ask (none of my friends collect and I bore my wife to tears when talking t206!).

Thanks,

Steve

My friend, we are in the same boat. My wife puts on a brave face for the first five minutes or so. After that, it seems my voice turns into fingernails on a chalkboard. She does enjoy the "putting cards away" part of the game. She is right there helping me. I am not sure I could ask for more than that

[buymycards]

Mike, you will be contacted by my attorney. I am one of those shady auction, slab cracking, overgrading, fake card sellers. I really did find those fake cards in my grandfathers attic and I am deeply offended by your post.

Rick

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Mike, you will be contacted by my attorney. I am one of those shady auction, slab cracking, overgrading, fake card sellers. I really did find those fake cards in my grandfathers attic and I am deeply offended by your post.

Rick

Oh? Do you favor the Snake Oil Salesman side of the family or the card mechanic side?

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

My time here on these boards is still measured in weeks, not even months yet. Members here have welcomed me. I have scored some cool cards over on BST. I am working hard to improve my Monster Number. In addition to these things, I have learned a lot about this hobby that I have loved now for 45 years. There have been interesting threads regarding all facets of collecting. Some of the threads run or ran simultaneously. Since I am a Ten Pin Bowling typist (two fingers and a thumb on one hand), sometimes it is tough for me to type a post while it is still relevant. I will use this thread/post to recap what information I have absorbed.

1. It seems that back in the 1850’s a young, silver-tongued snake oil salesman met up with a lady card mechanic while both were fleeing a town one step ahead of the law. They fell in love and spawned a brood of morally derelict kids who went on to be highwayman, con artists and politicians. Fast forward four generations and we find that the family, now spread all across the country, has cornered the world of sport memorabilia auction houses. Being genetically disposed to working on the shadowy side of the street, they think nothing of shenanigans, getting into bed with those who practice such things or simply turning a blind eye for the right price.

2. The graded card segment of our hobby is showing the strains of growth. It seems that there are not enough qualified graders to handle the steady piles of cards that collectors want to have slabbed. How else to we account for so many cards being re-submitted and receiving a higher grade? These are cards, not fine wine. They do not get better with age. Also, it seems that if you don’t like the grade you received, you simply need to resubmit the card over and over. If you still don’t like the grade, take it to a card show and get it graded there. (See Young, Dmitri).

3. The slab, long thought to be the end-all in card security and guarantee of the entombed card’s authenticity has come under attack. We now have counterfeit flips and bootleg slabs to contend with. Some idle-handed deviant has even figured out how to open a “real” slab so as to slip a lower grade card or even a reprint, in place of the actual graded card. Their handiwork is detectable in person but might be missed on an auction scan.

4. Lastly, and this point seems to be agreed on universally across the rank and file, any auction listing that mentions “cards that were found in Grandpa’s attic” are assuredly fake. A closer examination most likely finds the seller buying reprints using the same account.

When you add all of these points together, there is only one logical conclusion.
The BLACK SWAMP FIND MUST BE BOGUS.

Please accept this post as it was written…..with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

The truth is often said in jest.

[mrvster]

Your great people!!!Welcome aboard

[glynparson]

I actually think most on here don't really want to know all the hobbies deep dark secrets, or when they are exposed you wouldn't have some people scream and holler so much, and ask for proof are given it and just disregard it. This hobby does unfortunately have a lot of less than honest people, and many of them have way too influential position in the hobby.

[drc]

The motive of the big auction houses and graders is to make money.

Collectors will often say "a grading company shouldn't do this" or an "auction house should do this." My response is if it's going to make them money, they're going to do it. Making money is their motive for existing. Trying to argue that Becket shouldn't grade cards was futile if grading would be profitable for the company.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by drc

The motive of the big auction houses and graders is to make money.

Collectors will often say "a grading company shouldn't do this" or an "auction house should do this." My response is if it's going to make them money, they're going to do it. Making money is their motive for existing. Trying to argue that Becket shouldn't grade cards was futile if grading would be profitable for the company.

As collectors, everything that we do; every purchase, every trade, is motivated by that "whatever it is" that makes this hobby our addiction of choice. Sometimes, it is easy to get so caught up in the moment and forget that not everyone is in it for the love of cards. Auction houses, grading companies and a major percentage of sellers are just here to make a profit. If suddenly there was more money to be made dealing with vintage, polished turkey turds...away they'd go.