Ty Cobb auto - Real or Fake, Need help!

[case1820]

Hello everyone,

First post on here as I just signed up. I had recently purchased this Cobb autograph from a local auction that I attended. Everything about it seemed legit but after reading about all the forgeries out there I am a little gun shy. Not sure if I should send it in to PSA or JSA to get authenticated. I want to thank everyone in advance for any and all help on this one. I am trying to get a few Detroit Tigers vintage autographs for my personal collection.

Thanks,
Casey

[GrayGhost]

Welcome to the board, first off.

Looks pretty good to me, but I shall defer to Richard, David, Chris or other experts for a more qualified opinion.

[ScottR81]

Looks pretty nice, I vote PSA mostly because of the amount of money they spend on advertising.

[CMIZ5290]

Casey- looks nice, but the concerns i see is the letter t in Ty. also, the letter o is double inverted, you don't see that much. hope it checks out for you. if i had to vote, i would say it probably would not pass.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by ScottR81

Looks pretty nice, I vote PSA mostly because of the amount of money they spend on advertising.

Good one Scott,,,

[Tigerden]

Casey. Welcome to the board and good luck in your pursuit of Detroit Tigers autographs. I would send the signature into JSA for authentication because it is Cobb and,yes, due to the value of his signature, forgeries do exist.

[travrosty]

You need to send it to someone to find out if it is REAL. not to get a cert. You didn't buy the cert, you bought the autograph.

[David Atkatz]

You don't need to send it to anyone to find out if it's real.
Richard was kind enough to provide his professional opinion. JSA or PSA can do no better.
(Unless, of course, you really want to piss away $250 for absolutely no reason.)

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

You don't need to send it to anyone to find out if it's real.
Richard was kind enough to provide his professional opinion. JSA or PSA can do no better.
(Unless, of course, you really want to piss away $250 for absolutely no reason.)

David,
I don't believe that Richard did give his opinion. He merely commented on the fact that Scott's joke was a "good one" FWIW....

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

David,
I don't believe that Richard did give his opinion. He merely commented on the fact that Scott's joke was a "good one" FWIW....

Scott, you are correct.
The owner of this autograph called me before posting it here. He asked for my authentication prices, commented about how my prices were so much more reasonable than the ABC guys, and then put it here.

[case1820]

Hi Richard,

Yes I believe I talked to you yesterday? I found a few of these autograph sites and thought I could get some good opinions either way.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

David,
I don't believe that Richard did give his opinion. He merely commented on the fact that Scott's joke was a "good one" FWIW....

Oops... My mistake.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ScottR81

Looks pretty nice, I vote PSA mostly because of the amount of money they spend on advertising.

Nice one.

I also give them my vote, mainly for the great job they did on the Gretzky Wagner.

[case1820]

I am sensing some heavy sarcasm here, go easy on me guys I'm a newbie. ScottR81 and Runscott, do you think this might be an authentic one or did I get screwed over. I did spend $350 on it so could have been worse if its garbage.

[jcmtiger]

I think it's good, compared to my Cobb letter and Cobb check.

Joe

[HRBAKER]

Heavy sarcasm on this board?
I think you did fine but my opinion is worth about what I charge for it.
It does compare favorably with my check and cut.

[ScottR81]

The funny thing is when I went to the National in Chicago to get a Ruth ball graded I first took the ball to one of the really big auction houses and thats pretty much what they told me when I asked them who should I have grade it. PSA spends way more on advertising and people who dont even collect know PSA logo.

[ScottR81]

If you purchased it for $350.00 thats an amazing price for any authentic Cobb auto in that condition. The price would be the only thing that would make me wonder about it.

[case1820]

Knowing what his cuts sell for on reputable auction sites I was a little skeptical myself, that's the main reason I put it on here. I guess in the end if I'm happy with it and feel it's real I should just save the $150 on authentication. More so my wife would slap me up side the head if I got bad news from PSA.

[Mr. Zipper]

The paraph appears to be executed a little slowly with some wavering. Was that typical for Cobb? Slow and wavering is usually not a good sign in general, but perhaps Cobb did do them that way.

[travrosty]

I meant that if you are determined to send it in to someone and no one could talk you out of it, then make sure you find out if it is real and that is the number one goal rather than what the cert can get for you.

It is absolutely amazing what one can read all over the internet regarding certs and the reasoning people have to send the item in to one company over another company or over a competent individual or seasoned dealer.

I have seen a dozen reasons , with not one involving whether or not the person was interested in getting the most accurate opinion on whether the autograph is in fact genuine. Other factors people mentioned were.

How much can the cert get me for resale value.
which cert is the most accepted in the hobby.
Does ebay like the cert
which company is the most well known.
which fee is the cheapest or most expensive
which one shakes my hand and hands out christmas calendars (joking, but not too far off)

it used to amaze me that these reasons would come first over trying to find out if the autograph is real, but collectors in all shapes, sizes and iq levels.

some of them are buying the cert, not the item. the cert is what is worth the money, and even if the prevailing company made a mistake, the autograph is still worth a mint, because the cert says so, and these collectors don't care if the autograph is bogus.

conversely, some collectors get an autograph wrongly knocked down by a large company, and even though the autograph can be proven to be legit, they don't want it if they cant get a cert for it. its worthless to them even though it is real. They want the cert and they are going to go through hell and high water to get that cert, or the good autograph can go in trash bin, that's all that matters to them.

Some day autographs will be like gold, not changing hands, just certs changing hands saying that it is out there somewhere, and it is authentic.

The autograph doesnt have to be real, just authentic.

Travis Roste

[case1820]

Travis, well said...

Since this is for my own collection I really have no concern on who would bring the top dollar on ebay, just want to feel confident it's real. The few autos that I'm collecting are Cobb, Greenberg, Newhouser and Gehringer to add to a lithograph that's been signed by the other living Tigers on it.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by case1820

I guess in the end if I'm happy with it and feel it's real I should just save the $150 on authentication. More so my wife would slap me up side the head if I got bad news from PSA.

Would she slap you half as hard if you got bad news from Richard for half that price? (not knowing what he quoted you, but just looking at the prices on his website)

Seems to be in poor taste to get a quote from Richard for his services and then post the same item on a board he is known to frequent for freebie opinions. Kind of like getting a quote from a mechanic and then working on your car in the parking lot across from his shop: it's not illegal, but probably not the best way to do things.

[case1820]

First off I just signed up on this thing and had no idea who he was. I came across his website while browsing and decided to call and get some answers and his pricing. Pardon my ignorance but I thought this site would open up a good discussion and educate myself in the process. Up until a few days ago I thought I had to send this thing in to get authenticated. Now I'm unsure and that's why I seek a little counsel.

I had no intention of being misleading and showing Richard any disrespect.

[chaddurbin]

richard should do a "quick opinion" style like psa for a minimal cost. there are alot of uncerted signed items i see everyday that i'm kinda unsure about and i think would be great if i could get a quick opinion from richard. maybe not the high end or rare stuff that would cut into his bottom line, but the more common autos in the $50-$200 range to get his expertise.

[thecatspajamas]

Casey,
My apologies if I jumped to any conclusions. I assumed that you had found and contacted Richard through the site rather than independently. Seems that was not the case, so I'll step back out of the discussion and continue chewing on my foot rather than running off new members

[case1820]

Hey no worries! I called Richard because I believe he had some good information on his site dealing with forgeries, seemed good. BTW, he is out of New York?

[perezfan]

I think it's legit. I have seen many authentic examples with the paraph exactly like that. FWIW, my vote is "good".

[Scott Garner]

My first impression was that it's good as well.
I don't collect Cobb signatures, but I've seen a lot of good examples through the years that compare favorably with yours Casey.

[ss]

Originally Posted by case1820

Hey no worries! I called Richard because I believe he had some good information on his site dealing with forgeries, seemed good. BTW, he is out of New York?

Come Rich, cut him some slack. He's just trying to educate himself which is exactly what we all talk about, and you are our guru. Cut the new guy some slack.

[khkco4bls]

thats as real as it gets if you ask me.

[smtjoy]

I do agree it would be nice to have another choice for a quick opinion other than PSA, I know I would be more inclined to purchase autographs if so.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

I do agree it would be nice to have another choice for a quick opinion other than PSA, I know I would be more inclined to purchase autographs if so.

How does one use PSA Quick Opinion if an autograph IS NOT at an auction house??? The drop down menu only shows a myriad of auction houses!!

[case1820]

I checked out the PSA QuickOpinion info they had and now I'm even more baffled. It appears they only do it for items on Ebay? This seems like nice money making scheme for those guys. If there was any way I could submit my autograph this way and it came back "likely genuine" then I think I would save my money otherwise. I understand to best judge an item it should be in hand to be throughlly examined. I also agree with Chaddurbin that it would be a great option if there were other "QuickOpinion" options out there besides PSA if you didn't need a full blown cert.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by case1820

I checked out the PSA QuickOpinion info they had and now I'm even more baffled. It appears they only do it for items on Ebay? This seems like nice money making scheme for those guys.

Kind of my thoughts on the QuickOpinion as well.

Originally Posted by case1820

If there was any way I could submit my autograph this way and it came back "likely genuine" then I think I would save my money otherwise. I understand to best judge an item it should be in hand to be throughlly examined. I also agree with Chaddurbin that it would be a great option if there were other "QuickOpinion" options out there besides PSA if you didn't need a full blown cert.

If you wanted a PSA QuickOpinion though you can list it on ebay with an unreasonably high starting price and then submit it for to PSA for the QuickOpinion. Then simply remove the listing once done.

[case1820]

Ahhhh, very interesting.....

[canjond]

I third (or fourth?) that Richard should offer some type of quick opinion service. I would certainly use it.

[David Atkatz]

Ya know what? I'm gonna jump in here. Many of you know me... I've been collecting vintage material--both baseball and historical--since 1961. I've always been happy to provide my opinion (a very educated opinion, but an opinion, nonetheless) gratis--either here on the board or privately. But, I recently retired (nobody told me not to quit my day job!), and I could use a few extra bucks.

So... for a PayPal charge of $5, I'll provide a "quick opinion.' If I don't feel qualified to judge a particular piece, I'll let you know that, too, upfront.

No certs, no bullshit paper. I'll let you know whether or not I think it's good.

You take it from there.

datkatz@skidmore.edu

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Ya know what? I'm gonna jump in here. Many of you know me... I've been collecting vintage material--both baseball and historical--since 1961. I've always been happy to provide my opinion (a very educated opinion, but an opinion, nonetheless) gratis--either here on the board or privately. But, I recently retired (nobody told me not to quit my day job!), and I could use a few extra bucks.

So... for a PayPal charge of $5, I'll provide a "quick opinion.' If I don't feel qualified to judge a particular piece, I'll let you know that, too, upfront.

No certs, no bullshit paper. I'll let you know whether or not I think it's good.

You take it from there.

datkatz@skidmore.edu

Awesome David, I, for one, respect your opinion!!

[RichardSimon]

Thanks for the support here but for various reasons, which I won't elaborate on here, the quick opinion is not something I want to start doing.
And to digress a bit,, PSA offers quick opinion but you don't know who has looked at the item and rendered an opinion on it.

[travrosty]

why would anybody want quick anything when it comes to autographs?

I know quick electrical work (good enough, lets go home) and quick accounting (just round it to the nearest million), and quick archeology (just bust that skeleton out of that limestone, who will know the difference?) are popular but why quick autographs?

[David Atkatz]

Why? 'Cause if you know what you're doin' (a big if), it ain't that hard to spot a fake.

[David Atkatz]

Lemme tell ya a little story. Many, many years ago, a friend of mine worked as a locksmith in NYC. He'd go to people's apartments when they'd locked themselves out, and in two seconds he'd open the door. Some people would balk, though, at paying his $25 fee (told ya it was a long time ago) 'cause he hardly worked at all.

So he'd lock the door, and leave.

[chaddurbin]

would have been great if richard agreed to do the quick opinion thing...but i see that david is also well-respected here so i would welcome his (quick) opinion.

a quick opinion on autographs can be invaluable if it's coming from someone with knowledge and experience. in a few seconds these guys can tell that it's a sister's dimaggio or a ghost-penned cobb because it's second nature to them. of course nothing's guaranteed 100% and it's just an opinion but i rather hear it from someone with their backgrounds.

[Dalkiel]

One concern I have with Quick Opinion is, you're basically alerting someone to a possible great deal. Whoever is on the other end of the Quick Opinion could see the item in question and decide to go after it themself.

Or maybe I'm paranoid.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Why? 'Cause if you know what you're doin' (a big if), it ain't that hard to spot a fake.

Ditto, David.