E98 OLD PUT Backed Survey

[Tim Kindler]

I thought I would start this as a seperate thread because I think it might have gotten buried in the recent thread about E98s.
I wanted to try to get a comprehensive checklist of all known E98s that have an Old Put Stamp on them so that it would add to the provenance of the existing ones that exist. This checklist will help when "newly discovered to the hobby" Old Puts appear. I'm not saying that any new Old Puts to the market automatically means that they are fakes, but as Leon stated in the thread about overprints that "provenance" will come into play in the future as overprints like an Old Put are discovered. For example, I have the "provenance" well documented on the 6 Old Puts that I own with pictures and documentation from auction houses.

So here is what I know currently exists at this point. Please chime in with any other additional information:

Most Old Put stamped E98s have a red background, but at least 2, maybe 3 have a blue background. Of all the ones with the OP stamp only Clarke has been known to have 2 cards stamped. Every other know OP backed card is supposedly a one-of-a-kind.

These are the ones that I know of:

BLUE
BACKGROUND
* Leon owns a Clarke SGC graded
*Rob A. owns a Dooin (Don't know if it is graded)
*Leon thinks he has read or heard of a 3rd one????
**Leon and Rob, I put your names by your cards because you have them displayed on your websites.

RED
BACKGROUND
* SGC has a Chance listed on their Registry.
I have * a Cobb SGC graded
* a Wagner SGC graded
* a Brown SGC graded
* a Mcgraw SGC graded
* a Young SGC graded
* a Collins SGC graded
*Leon owns a Bresnahan
* I saw a Meyers in a Devid Festberg auction about 8 years ago.
*Bob M. (tbob) had a RED Clarke that was on its way to
him after being grade by GAI but was LOST in shipping
by big brown.

This would put the total at 11 known to exist, 12 if we count the possible 3rd blue one, and 13 if Bob's Red Clarke ever shows up. It is interesting that of all the ones to exist only 1 ISN"T a Hall of Famer!

If others exist, please let the board know. This would be very valuable information if a new discovery pops up in the future. I'm hoping that the grading companies could use this information, and the recent overprint forgeries, to help them be very cautious in their future grading of these Old Put Overprints.

Thanks,
Tim

[Leon]

Nice work so far. The other blue background Old Put I am aware of is one that I did see a scan of. There is no refuting I saw it. As a matter of fact I know it belong(ed) to an employee of a card dealer, I think Kit Young. He had sent a scan several years ago when we were talking about them on the board at that time. I agree with Adam W too, if these aren't your cup of tea, that is fine. The fewer collectors of them the less they will cost us ........ As I have said before, and you have made a point of too, I do think provenance on overprints is a good thing. Last time we had this discussion about E94's I called Rob L and asked him about them, since he's been in the hobby around 30-35 yrs. He told me he has found E94 overprints in virgin collections and is sure they are legit. My Oh You Fan E94 came, second hand thru Tom B., from a guy that barely knew what he had. At least 7-8 of my exact E94 overprints are shown in Lipset's Encyclopedia as I got them from one of his auctions many years ago. That book is 25 yrs old so having pics of them in there is as good as it gets for provenance. I bought those 8 (of the 10 I own) in his auction, for $8800, which was a record high price at the time. All of them were sent in 1 toploader, stacked on top of each other. I would venture to guess there are many more Old Puts and E94 overprints that are not even known about, still in old original collections.

[tbob]

Leon, there probably are more E94 overprints in collections (I found one myself on a card recently which I had forgotten about) but I doubt there are too many more Old Puts. (At least for now, I am still wondering about possible forgeries in the future because of the seeming ease of creating a rubber stamp to make them).
I agree with leon, provenance is important...

[tbob]

As I recall my Old Put Clarke was pictured in the SCD catalogue for a couple of years, don't know if it is still pictured in the current catalogue or not. You have to have the tobacco card designation to find it since Old Puts have their own tobacco card designation now (can't for the life of me remember what it is)

[canjond]

Wasn't there an Old Put on eBay a few years back being sold by a person who didn't know what they had? I can remember the card being in poor shape and the Old Put overprint was barely visable, but was there. I think the card was won by a board member.

[HRBAKER]

Tbob,
It's still in there, page 268 in the 2009 Standard catalog. It does not bear a tobacco designation though, simply listed in the O's right after Old Judge.

[caramelcard]

I agree with Bob. I think there are more E94 overprints out there than Old Put cards.



Jon: That's the blue Dooin that I won on ebay a couple years ago. It looks like it's been water damaged, but even though faded I can tell it's a legitimate stamp.

Rob

[pcoz]

Here's an Old Put to add to the list. Tim, amazing collection!

[Tim Kindler]

Pete,
Loved to see the new Dooin surface. Sorry I bid you up on it, but glad it went someone who appreciates the rareness of the issue. I'm glad to see that it was confirmed authentic. I'll admit I couldn't go any higher not knowing for sure if it was authentic or not. Great to see so many beautiful E98s surfacing lately. We haven't updated this list in a long time, so if anyone else has one to add, everyone would love to see them.

I've attached an image of Pete's Dooin's Blue "brother". From our survey a few years ago, this blue Dooin belonged to Rob A. at the time. After I purchased it from him, (Thanks Rob!) it was Authenticated by SGC and gave me my seventh Old Put.

Pete has a real nice E98 set going on his SGC Registry! (Hope you don't mind the endorsement)
All four of my sets are also on the SGC Registry under each background color. I'm slowly getting toward the Master Set (90 out of 120) with a few cards that I have, but need to get graded by SGC not on the site yet.

Anyway best wishes to everyone and it's neat to see an old thread come up!

[Lunker21]

I am honored to update this hallowed pedigree of two of the e98 OldPut family...

I have been collecting for about 3 years, and have come to really love finding all four backgrounds of the e98, and framing (so these pieces of art don't sit in a box) with another 5th card (oddball/misprint, e94 or e97 same pose...etc) to make a set of 5...

It was exciting to unite this pair when the two of these became available from two different long-time stewards, along with another oddball... an e93 with an upside-down misprint e97 back. (Although, as I am writing this, I realize I'm not sure how to know that it isn't an orange e98 front... always something to explore...ideas/opinions welcomed!)

Hopefully this update spurs on any other updates to this awesome sub-set, and if anyone has any cards they would like to frame (SGC,PSA,raw, any combo)
I'd love to help get more of these cards out for more to see. (Any number of slabs 1 to 10 pretty easy, but can do even 24 or more...)

If anyone has another Dooin oddball I'd love to see, and if anyone has more info on other OldPuts, that would be great to hear.... thanks to everyone who helped to make this come together!

Cheers,
Craig Martin
(lunker21)
C.martin@spirearch.com

[gabrinus]

Those are cool Craig...Jerry

[sb1]

I imagine this is the Red Cy Young. I bought and sold it a long time ago..just realized it is pictured above.

I had one or two others, but don't recall the players..

[Tim Kindler]

Craig,
Thanks for sharing your beautiful collection and displays that you have been assembling on these Old Puts and other caramel cards. I really enjoy seeing someone with a passion for their collections no matter how what the overall worth is, high or low, or the size of it..... Just nice to see the love of cards and history. Thanks for bringing back such great memories of one of my collecting passions over the years - E98s and Old Puts - with an old thread of mine from many years back. At one time, I had a Master set and many Old Puts, but over the years, family financial needs took the place of these collections and most of what I once owned is gone, but no regrets and the selling of these items have greatly benefitted my family over the years. I believe fellow board member Pete Costanzo still owns most of my old Old Puts in his AMAZING Collection. Pete has always been an outstanding and trustworthy member to do collecting business with over the years and is very knowledgeable on Old Puts. Collecting Passions change over time, but E98s have always been a beautiful little set to focus on.... Best wishes with your continued success on E98s Craig!
Tim Kindler

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tim Kindler

Craig,
Thanks for sharing your beautiful collection and displays that you have been assembling on these Old Puts and other caramel cards. I really enjoy seeing someone with a passion for their collections no matter how what the overall worth is, high or low, or the size of it..... Just nice to see the love of cards and history. Thanks for bringing back such great memories of one of my collecting passions over the years - E98s and Old Puts - with an old thread of mine from many years back. At one time, I had a Master set and many Old Puts, but over the years, family financial needs took the place of these collections and most of what I once owned is gone, but no regrets and the selling of these items have greatly benefitted my family over the years. I believe fellow board member Pete Costanzo still owns most of my old Old Puts in his AMAZING Collection. Pete has always been an outstanding and trustworthy member to do collecting business with over the years and is very knowledgeable on Old Puts. Collecting Passions change over time, but E98s have always been a beautiful little set to focus on.... Best wishes with your continued success on E98s Craig!
Tim Kindler

Hey Tim
A lot of us have sold for good reasons and have kept on in the hunt. It's just a little more expensive this time!
.

[tbob]

Tim- it’s good to hear from you again. I stumbled across this thread and smiled when I saw some of my posts from 2009. Time sure does fly. I glanced at my card inventory lists and spotted an Old Put which has not previously been catalogued/listed a McLean. It has the red background and is in a PSA 3 holder.
Tbob