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#151
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IG: venezuelan_league_stickers |
#152
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Folks often forget to parse the difference between the experience of holding a card in hand, and scrutinizing it via scans and enlargements on a screen. The former is the litmus test to me, of a card's beauty. Even in person, if someone likes to look at their cards from say a foot or two away in a wall display, or on desk stands, it is amazing how certain flaws are not bothersome to the eye at all.
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instagram: mattyc_collection |
#153
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We all know a Dale Coogan I submit with no backstory, marketing, or spin and the exact same damage would not get a 9.5. |
#154
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Bob, it is called a "bailment": an act of delivering goods to a person for a particular purpose, without transfer of ownership to that person. The difference between a bailment and an apartment lease is that the lease gives the renter rights to the space. It is the literal opposite of a bailment: the space is delivered to the tenant. Anything in the space is presumed to be the tenant's property. A safe deposit box is the same idea: the bank gives you the space and whatever is in there is presumed yours. In the case of a bailment, unless there is a public record of the item, it is presumed to belong to the debtor and as such it goes into the general asset pot.
The vault agreements are meaningless in bankruptcy; the bankruptcy law breaks all private agreements...except perfected security interests. The system for notifying the world that someone is holding your possessions (perfecting the interest) is the UCC filing system. It takes a minute and costs like five bucks. No reason not to do it when you are handing some ass-clown a five or six figure item.
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At ten all I thought about was card collecting. At twenty all I thought about was women. At thirty all I thought about was success. At forty all I thought about was money. Now all I think about is retirement...because all I want to think about is card collecting! Last edited by Exhibitman; 08-06-2022 at 12:49 PM. |
#155
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Regardless what we think it does have the 9.5 and if it sells (depending if there is a reserve) then it will set the new Record for Highest Card Sold. In person it is a beautiful card and in person at the National Show the card looked really good and presented better than the picture of it. In my uneducated humble opinion
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Thanks all Jeff Kuhr https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/ Kuhr@mac.com Looking for 1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards 1921/22 Ruth Throwing Pose "Babe" and George 1921 Frederick Foto Ruth 1917 Boston Store Babe Ruth Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs 1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson 1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson other Joe Jackson playing day cards 1908 Rose Postcard Ty Cobb |
#156
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None of it changes that SGC has clearly ignored their own standards. |
#157
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BST h2oya311, Jobu, Shoeless Moe, Bumpus Jones, Frankish, Shoeless Moe again, Maddux31, Billycards, sycks22 |
#158
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Theyve also authenticated the "Zuckerberg " signed rookie, when they state they dont authenticate autographs anymore. The inmates are running the asylum, and nobody cares!
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#159
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Bob, Isn’t capital gains on collectibles 28%?
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#160
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I don't think people like to discuss them shutting down their autograph authenticating because they accepted a bunch of fakes, in the first place. Got to push the narratives, no matter how obviously problematic or untrue they are.
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#161
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Right! Around the same time they also removed their "guarantee" on their graded cards. Well hobbyists, as usual, showed them how wrong these things were by sending them more cards than ever. Take that SGC!
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#162
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So, my question/point is to everyone, why don't these "vault" providers actually set there service up so that in fact you are actually renting some specific space in their facility, like with a safe deposit box at your local bank? The "vault" providers charge you for keeping your items with them, why not actually call it rent, actually create specific and separate rooms/spaces/whatever for people to actually lease to then store just their items in, and set/write the "vault" agreements up that way to afford their customers further protection from potential "bailment" issues should they ever go bankrupt? I fully understand the ease and relative nominal cost to file a UCC-1, but first off, don't you have to actually list all the items that are your property on the UCC-1 filing so the courts know exactly what is and isn't yours then, and therefore protected from a potential "bailment' issue or claim? And if so, doesn't that mean that if you set up a "vault" account and use it in on ongoing basis for continuing purchases and activity, you literally need to be constantly updating and refiling UCC-1s as you buy more items to hold in your "vault", or remove/sell things out of it, so the inventory of your actual assets is always up to date and accurate? To most people, I think they would consider having to do that nothing more than a great big PITA!!! Adam, for you with your knowledge and legal background, filing a UCC-1 is simple and quick. For the vast majority of the rest of us, it is something we've likely never done in our lives, and probably never will. We've had people on here talking about sending cards in to TPGs for grading for decades now. Want to guess an over/under number on how many of them also made sure to file a UCC-1 to protect themselves should the TPG suddenly file bankruptcy? (My suggestion would be that whatever it is, to take lower.) So again, thank you for helping me to explain to others how they could have an issue and potentially put their property kept in a "vault" at risk if they use one of these "vault" services. And as I've said before, I've never used any "vault' service, nor seen or read any "vault" provider's user contract/operating agreement to know exactly what it says to determine if in fact what they are doing for people would be considered as a valid rental/lease, or as you stated, a "bailment". Would also be nice to find out if one or more of the "vault" operators set their service up to be able to offer their users this extra protection, and which ones don't. That would say a lot about how much these providers really care about and look out for their customers/users. If these "vault' providers were really smart, they should be sure to intentionally set up their service as a true rental/lease, and let their users know it. And if someone is using a "vault" provider that doesn't provide the proper rental/leasing service to protect them from "bailment" issues, it may behoove them to start putting pressure on their "vault" provider to quickly change things so it does protect them and their assets, or maybe they should start looking for a new "vault" provider that does? |
#163
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Anyways, it’s a good thing we trust SGC so much that we must ignore the evidence of our eyes and ears, never address that the card undeniably does not meet their own standards, keep the pump pumping, and insist that the people who can read SGC’s own grading standards are “crazy”. After all it’s not just SGC, Mr. Mint said it’s the best which means it’s a SGC 9.5! You trust Mr. Mint, right? Never admit a load of bunk is a load of bunk if that bunk is being used to pump a card you want to see pumped. Even if it requires a nonsensical argument that relies on Mr. Mint being an honest arbiter and ignoring the actual wear and the entire back. #invest It’s a great card, a fortune would be made simply selling it honestly. |
#164
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Two points here
1) I am not affiliated with PWCC or the PWCC vault in any way. I like to drool over my actual cards. But it has been presented to the public that PWCC auction operations and PWCC vault operations are separate legal entities. Hence it has been presented that bankruptcy by the auction side would have no impact on cards in the vault. 2) Card company guarantees certainly can be used in a self serving manner. A company can obviously bless trimmed cards as ok and not pay out on the guarantee. But a guarantee is better than no guarantee. At least it gives you a chance. Long ago when SGC had the guarantee, I bought a D380 Clement Bros card off eBay. Turned out the card had pencil all over it and should be in an A holder. I was paid out what I thought was fair amount on the guarantee, the card was removed from the holder, and I kept the raw card. Today if this happened with SGC I would just be out of luck. |
#165
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Bob:
You are right: a new UCC-1 has to be filed when items are added to a vault and the record is public. I can say for sure that the vault is not renting real estate or a safe deposit box. It is simply providing a bailment service to dodge state sales taxes. Which are deferred: if you ever take delivery of the card, you owe the tax for your state.
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At ten all I thought about was card collecting. At twenty all I thought about was women. At thirty all I thought about was success. At forty all I thought about was money. Now all I think about is retirement...because all I want to think about is card collecting! |
#166
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Yes. I pick the exact example I described.
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#167
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In the early 2000's before he passed away in 2011, I had the opportunity and pleasure to meet Dan McCarthy, and listen to stories he told to a then colleague and myself about how he was the one, on behalf of the New York Yankees, that was able to convince the IRS to accept the concept of depreciating player contracts for income tax purposes. So it doesn't seem impossible to me that when there is a legal will to get something done, there can be a legal way to do so. McCarthy also told us how ironically at one time, the New York Yankees were owned by an Ohio limited partnership. Last edited by BobC; 08-08-2022 at 12:31 AM. |
#168
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'Integrity is what you do when no one is looking' "The man who can keep a secret may be wise, but he is not half as wise as the man with no secrets to keep” Last edited by Michael B; 08-08-2022 at 12:52 AM. |
#169
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Someone else told me the same thing, but what about state taxes? I know it varies by state, but let’s say he lives in a wonderful democratically run state like NY or California? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#170
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Cant wait for the PWCC "storage wars" style vault auction!
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#171
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However, New York state does have an estate tax, but no inheritance tax. For 2022, the minimum threshold to be subject to New York's estate tax is $6.11M. As long as your taxable estate is worth less than this amount, there is no estate tax due New York. This exemption threshold amount is subject to change and goes up each year based on same inflation factor. However, New York also has a quirky twist to their estate tax law. As long as your estate value does not go up any higher than 105% of that estate tax exemption threshold, which for 2022 is $6,415,500 ($6.11M X 105%), you only pay New York estate tax on the value of the estate in excess of the 2022 exemption threshold amount of $6.11M. But, go just $1 over the 105% amount of $6,415,500 to $6,415,501, and the entire value of the estate, including the previously exempt $6.11M, is now all subject to New York estate tax. And kind of like income taxes, New York estate taxes are calculated on a graduated tax rate schedule that starts at 3.06% on the first taxable dollars of the estate, and goes all the way up to 16.0% that starts once the taxable value of the estate goes over $10.1M. Here's New York state's current estate tax table for 2022 shown below. So based on this, if someone passed away in 2022 and left the heirs a card valued for estate purposes at say $10M, and there was nothing else in the estate, that entire $10M would be subject to New York estate tax based on the table below, which would end up being $1,067,600 in estate tax due. NEW YORK ESTATE TAX RATES Taxable Estate* Base Taxes Paid Marginal Rate Rate Threshold** $1 – $500,000 $0 3.06% $1 $500,000 – $1 million $15,300 5.0% $500,000 $1 million – $1.5 million $40,300 5.5% $1 million $1.5 million – $2.1 million $67,800 6.5% $1.5 million $2.1 million – $2.6 million $106,800 8.0% $2.1 million $2.6 million – $3.1 million $146,800 8.8% $2.6 million $3.1 million – $3.6 million $190,800 9.6% $3.1 million $3.6 million – $4.1 million $238,800 10.4% $3.6 million $4.1 million – $5.1 million $290,800 11.2% $4.1 million $5.1 million – $6.1 million $402,800 12.0% $5.1 million $6.1 million – $7.1 million $522,800 12.8% $6.1 million $7.1 million – $8.1 million $650,800 13.6% $7.1 million $8.1 million – $9.1 million $786,800 14.4% $8.1 million $9.1 million – $10.1 million $930,800 15.2% $9.1 million Over $10.1 million $1.082 million 16% $10.1 million That help? |
#172
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Yes. But as I read this thread there is one scenario that has not been brought up but is very realistic. Medicaid! I wonder if you can put a card collection in an irrevocable trust? If you are unfortunate to have you or your spouse end up in a nursing home for any length of time, Medicaid will force the remaining spouse to spend down all your assets to about $80k. If your by yourself and you try to pass it down in a will you would be subject to Medicaid recovery. At $14k/month … you get the picture. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#173
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But for me let's get back to the Card and which is better the 9.5 or the 10. Let's see what people think the over under on the 9.5 will be. Let's continue to have members show off their cards. Lets talk about Mantle and share stories To much Tax talk for me
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Thanks all Jeff Kuhr https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/ Kuhr@mac.com Looking for 1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards 1921/22 Ruth Throwing Pose "Babe" and George 1921 Frederick Foto Ruth 1917 Boston Store Babe Ruth Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs 1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson 1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson other Joe Jackson playing day cards 1908 Rose Postcard Ty Cobb |
#174
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I actually enjoy so much BobC's tax talk. I have been learning so much from his posts. I would hire BobC to handle my money if I ever won lottery!
Thank you BobC for sharing your knowledge as always!!! |
#175
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I just want to have fun with the rest of the stuff
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Thanks all Jeff Kuhr https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/ Kuhr@mac.com Looking for 1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards 1921/22 Ruth Throwing Pose "Babe" and George 1921 Frederick Foto Ruth 1917 Boston Store Babe Ruth Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs 1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson 1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson other Joe Jackson playing day cards 1908 Rose Postcard Ty Cobb |
#176
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What's not fun about a tax liability? I appreciate Bob's input greatly. It is awesome that he takes the time to thoroughly explain things to those of us who are clueless about tax law. It is just too bad we do not have all of his info in one place. If I have not written this before...I am now. Thank you Bob for taking the time out of your day to educate us. I am sure you have more than enough to do during your day.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#177
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Chris, you are probably in the minority! |
#178
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I enjoy it too. Many Thanks Bob :-). You’re a highly valued member to many, including me.
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#179
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I was specifically asked a question, and did not mean to hijack your thread. Will try to limit the tax answers. |
#180
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I appreciate you and the time you put into answering it. Just wanted to keep it going with the other stuff also. All good and thanks but again Do not stop and we all appreciate you
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Thanks all Jeff Kuhr https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/ Kuhr@mac.com Looking for 1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards 1921/22 Ruth Throwing Pose "Babe" and George 1921 Frederick Foto Ruth 1917 Boston Store Babe Ruth Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs 1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson 1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson other Joe Jackson playing day cards 1908 Rose Postcard Ty Cobb |
#181
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Doing so though is considered a potential gift to the ultimate beneficiaries of the irrevocable trust. So depending on what you gift and how much it is currently valued at, and how many beneficiaries there are, you may have to file a federal gift tax return, and could end up having some gift tax implications and liability as well. Last edited by BobC; 08-09-2022 at 09:22 PM. |
#182
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__________________
Thanks all Jeff Kuhr https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/ Kuhr@mac.com Looking for 1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards 1921/22 Ruth Throwing Pose "Babe" and George 1921 Frederick Foto Ruth 1917 Boston Store Babe Ruth Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs 1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson 1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson other Joe Jackson playing day cards 1908 Rose Postcard Ty Cobb |
#183
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Actually need to correct some of what I said in post #181 a little bit. No one actually comes after you to get the money/property back if it has been improperly spent or you gifted some of it away during the five year period before you file for Medicaid. Instead, what the Medicaid people normally do is figure out how much you spent/gifted and divide that total amount by the average daily/monthly amount it would cost to have someone cared for in a nursing home or like facility. That way they then figure out how many days/months of care what you gave/gifted away would cover, and delay the start of your Medicaid coverage by that same period of time. So you and your family basically have to somehow cover your nursing and all other costs till that time is made up. And then Medicaid will take over and start to pay for things.
Sorry for not explaining it as clearly before. |
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