I simply do not understand Modern - Doncic vs Mantle

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I'm A HUGE Ja Morant fan. Every since murray state. I've been saying all along, "I don't know if Zion will pan out, but I KNOW Morant will be a superstar."

That said, he's still no Luka Doncic. Not even close. There isn't a single GM in the league who would take Morant over Luka. You don't know basketball if you think otherwise. You're a highlight reel watcher. Morant makes highlights. He's more fun to watch. But he's not a better player. Not even close.

Lol!! You are insufferable, and this comment is so ignorant it's not worth continuing the debate even if you weren't so obnoxious.

That said, just for humor's sake I am going to save this post right next to the one where you claim Hyun Jin Ryu is better than Warren Spahn.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

...Hyun Jin Ryu is better than Warren Spahn...

I don't know, maybe he has a point. After all, Hyun Jin Ryu has three names compared to Spahn's two...and he did it with fewer letters.

You can't argue with statistics.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I don't know, maybe he has a point. After all, Hyun Jin Ryu has three names compared to Spahn's two...and he did it with fewer letters.

You can't argue with statistics.

Haha!

[Seven]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Lol!! You are insufferable, and this comment is so ignorant it's not worth continuing the debate even if you weren't so obnoxious.

That said, just for humor's sake I am going to save this post right next to the one where you claim Hyun Jin Ryu is better than Warren Spahn.

That's when I removed myself from the conversation on the best lefty thread.

Getting back to the purpose of the thread, I honestly think the Doncic card is the perfect reflection of the Modern card market. Doncic is very marketable, appeals to a lot of people and ever since his record setting card a little bit ago, people want to keep buying more of him, that are into Modern.

Mantle is iconic, for the post war Hobby. I do think Vintage does tend to sway a bit towards the older crowd however, and even if Mantle's 52 Topps, transcends that, many of the modern collectors crowd probably has the mindset of, "Well it's not shiny, it's not autographed, it's just a regular card." Mantle's cards do operate, off a sort of Nostalgia of the clean cut, All American Boy, from Oklahoma, who could smack a couple of homers and then go out and party with his pals after the game. I think also the majority of Mantle collectors either fall into the categories of A) Grew up watching him or B) Had fathers who grew up watching him.

Doncic is all the rage now. He's Young, very talented, on the world stage of one of the most popular sports, his cards will reflect that. I don't really understand it either, it's not rational, but neither is this card market, or the fact that digital pixels are selling for thousands of dollars, but NFT's are another discussion.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Lol!! You are insufferable, and this comment is so ignorant it's not worth continuing the debate even if you weren't so obnoxious.

That said, just for humor's sake I am going to save this post right next to the one where you claim Hyun Jin Ryu is better than Warren Spahn.

Ryu is better than Warren Spahn. Along with probably almost half the league today. And again, it's not even close. You're free to think otherwise though. I really couldn't care less.

As for Doncic vs Morant, there's a lot more to the game of basketball than slashing and cutting to the rim for poster dunks. The reasons Doncic is better than Morant are the same reasons that Jokic won the MVP last year.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Ryu is better than Warren Spahn. Along with probably almost half the league today. And again, it's not even close. You're free to think otherwise though. I really couldn't care less.

As for Doncic vs Morant, there's a lot more to the game of basketball than slashing and cutting to the rim for poster dunks. The reasons Doncic is better than Morant are the same reasons that Jokic won the MVP last year.

Another nonsensical comment. I can't help but wonder if you are as much of a self-righteous prick in real life as you come across on this board.

Like, if you go to dinner with someone and you disagree about the quality of the food, do you proceed to tell them how they "obviously don't know cuisine"?

Or, at breakfast, do you proselytize to whomever you're with about how your statistical analysis proves that you and you alone have determined the correct milk-to-cereal ratio and if anyone disagrees, "you couldn't care less"?

Readers will notice that you have failed to back up your ridiculous position with your own beloved statistics, and instead have resorted to baseless insults. I wonder why?

Let's compare their career stats per 36 minutes:

FG% Morant +1.6%

3PT% Morant +.1%

FT% Morant +1.8%

Rebounds Doncic +4.1

Assist to Turnover Ratio
Morant 2.19:1
Doncic 1.95:1

Steals Doncic +.4

Blocks Doncic +.1

Pts Doncic +4.9

Consider also their qualities as on and off the court leaders, and it will make sense why Morant would be widely preferred among GMs if an anonymous poll was taken today.

Or, perhaps you could use your Silicon Valley VC contacts to reach out to Zach Kleiman and ask him if he would trade Morant for Doncic. Then let us know the number of expletives that his negative response to you contains.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe I don't know the new BKB metrics, but if Doncic scores 5 more points with 4 more rebounds, it's not entirely obvious to me that Morant is clearly better? Where at least stat wise is this clear edge to Morant?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe I don't know the new BKB metrics, but if Doncic scores 5 more points with 4 more rebounds, it's not entirely obvious to me that Morant is clearly better? Where at least stat wise is this clear edge to Morant?

Good point. These stats alone certainly don't prove that. I brought up these stats mainly to counter Snowman's assertion that "Doncic is the best young player in the league and it's not close." Just these stats alone are clearly enough to refute that–Morant is a better pure scorer and pure point guard, while Doncic is a better rebounder and marginally better defender.

Statistically, they are trending in different directions, though: Morant has been better than Doncic this season overall by a fair margin, including more points scored per game.

I actually think it's the non-statistical stuff that makes Morant a better player. Morant makes his teammates better, while Doncic....does not. Watching both of them through their career, it's clear that Morant is a far more mature player (and person) than Doncic despite being younger.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Good point. These stats alone certainly don't prove that. I brought up these stats mainly to counter Snowman's assertion that "Doncic is the best young player in the league and it's not close." Just these stats alone are clearly enough to refute that–Morant is a better pure scorer and pure point guard, while Doncic is a better rebounder and marginally better defender.

Statistically, they are trending in different directions, though: Morant has been better than Doncic this season overall by a fair margin, including more points scored per game.

I actually think it's the non-statistical stuff that makes Morant a better player. Morant makes his teammates better, while Doncic....does not. Watching both of them through their career, it's clear that Morant is a far more mature player (and person) than Doncic despite being younger.

What's your assessment (recognizing that obviously it's speculative this early) of Morant's upside?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's your assessment (recognizing that obviously it's speculative this early) of Morant's upside?

Allen Iverson with multiple championships and a longer career.

Optimists see Doncic's ceiling as a Euro-/Lite version of Magic Johnson, but for me that's a big stretch. He's a tall, thick point guard, but the comparison doesn't go beyond that for me.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Another nonsensical comment. I can't help but wonder if you are as much of a self-righteous prick in real life as you come across on this board.

Like, if you go to dinner with someone and you disagree about the quality of the food, do you proceed to tell them how they "obviously don't know cuisine"?

Or, at breakfast, do you proselytize to whomever you're with about how your statistical analysis proves that you and you alone have determined the correct milk-to-cereal ratio and if anyone disagrees, "you couldn't care less"?

Readers will notice that you have failed to back up your ridiculous position with your own beloved statistics, and instead have resorted to baseless insults. I wonder why?

Let's compare their career stats per 36 minutes:

FG% Morant +1.6%

3PT% Morant +.1%

FT% Morant +1.8%

Rebounds Doncic +4.1

Assist to Turnover Ratio
Morant 2.19:1
Doncic 1.95:1

Steals Doncic +.4

Blocks Doncic +.1

Pts Doncic +4.9

Consider also their qualities as on and off the court leaders, and it will make sense why Morant would be widely preferred among GMs if an anonymous poll was taken today.

Or, perhaps you could use your Silicon Valley VC contacts to reach out to Zach Kleiman and ask him if he would trade Morant for Doncic. Then let us know the number of expletives that his negative response to you contains.

The only person I see casting insults in this thread is you. I gave my opinion on Luka vs Morant. You are more than free to disagree with me. Again, I really don't care. But let's not pretend like I'm the one in here calling you names.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Snowman

The only person I see casting insults in this thread is you. I gave my opinion on Luka vs Morant. You are more than free to disagree with me. Again, I really don't care. But let's not pretend like I'm the one in here calling you names.

Originally Posted by Snowman

You're a highlight reel watcher.

Originally Posted by Snowman

You don't know basketball

Originally Posted by Snowman

there's a lot more to the game of basketball than slashing and cutting to the rim for poster dunks

Wtf Realy GIFfrom Wtf GIFs

[Snowman]

OK, let's get this straight. I said you were a "highlight reel watcher" who doesn't really know the game of basketball.

You called me, "insufferable", "ignorant", "obnoxious", "nonsensical", and "a self-righteous prick" among a slew of other cutting remarks.

Does this help clarify how this conversation has gone so far?

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Lol!! You are insufferable, and this comment is so ignorant it's not worth continuing the debate even if you weren't so obnoxious...

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Another nonsensical comment. I can't help but wonder if you are as much of a self-righteous prick in real life as you come across on this board...

FWIW, this conversation is over. You are going on my ignore list for what should be obvious reasons. I'm not going to engage with you. Feel free to continue with the personal insults if you'd like though.