Ashamed - Topps T206 Buy Back Fraud

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jb217676

Why aren't the facts of the matter just laid out? What's the point of us discussing this situation with each other, we weren't involved.

I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible. This is new stuff happening very recently, as well as, what looks like at least a few years back.

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by Leon

I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible.

After reading his first post I think he may need to sober up a bit first

[bn2cardz]

Am I safe in assuming it hast to do with these?

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...yback&_sacat=0

[gemmint77]

Great, I have been buying and collecting the Topps T206 buybacks for years. I have about 15 now still in the Topps holder. Have cut about 6 out and had them graded by BVG. What a mess. Lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by gemmint77

lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...

lol!

[Michael B]

Lesson learned. Will only buy graded from now on...[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn't you just buy raw? From what I have gathered people are paying a premium for cards in a crappy TOPPS cardboard and plasticine holder when the actual card would be considerably less if bought without that holder.

[Stonepony]

"And why would anyone spend all that time and energy committing fraud for what appears to equate to less than minimum wage?"

Ask Battlefield...those low $ transactions fly under the radar but eventually add up to some serious dough

[AddieJoss]

I've read this whole string and wonder if real T206s were put into the buyback holders, or was it fake T206s put into the buyback holders, thus more profitable (and not questioned for authenticity) .
Cory Weiser

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The way to make money is with trimmed a d altered cards. There are definitely a few that fit this description in this instance, and generally people felt safe buying the buy backs because they were vetted.

[drcy]

A funny thing is, and if I'm correct in thinking what were the T206 'buybacks,' Topps usually used really low grade cards, didn't assign a grade, once in a while inserted the wrong issue and people here wondered why people would give a premium to a low grade T206 just because it was in one of those Topps holders.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by drcy

A funny thing is, and if I'm correct in thinking what were the T206 'buybacks,' Topps usually used really low grade cards, didn't assign a grade, once in a while inserted the wrong issue and people here wondered why people would give a premium to a low grade T206 just because it was in one of those Topps holders.

I got a pretty nice Zach Wheat 205 out of one of these Topps boxes. It was in Ex+ condition. The others were it Fr-Good condition. Maybe it was from the T-205 reprint boxes though. Should have kept the Wheat. Others were really no namers.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

After reading his first post I think he may need to sober up a bit first

Seein' how Leon & 'His Ownself' are Talking about it...
Things can Only get Bettar ~

Larry & Not that my forgiveness is needed ~

You have my Admiration Sir!!! : )

[Pat R]

It's obvious Larry was only ashamed he got caught he's still altering cards and selling them on ebay.

He bought this Turner EPDG on May 24 2020 for $143.50 soaked it in bleach or some other chemical solution re-colored the corners and sold it as a BIN for $175.00 on August 12 2020.

[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]

[vintagetoppsguy]

Definitely the same card.

If he bought it for 143.50 and sold it for $175.00, that seems like a lot of effort to net only about $13 profit after fees.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Definitely the same card.

If he bought it for 143.50 and sold it for $175.00, that seems like a lot of effort to net only about $13 profit after fees.

If you read this lengthy thread,a nd the first one, you will see it was/is his MO. He is the Happy Meal fraudster. Once he got booted from here he called me for a while, to get back on, but I didn't want to hear it. Sounds like the FBI might need to give him another call. I know it's small time but I doubt a Special Agent would think it's funny that he is doing it again after he was already told to stop.
.

[Leon]

Hey Pat
Nice find., Just curious why it took over a year to post about it? It's always good to out fraud but just curious

Originally Posted by Pat R

It's obvious Larry was only ashamed he got caught he's still altering cards and selling them on ebay.

He bought this Turner EPDG on May 24 2020 for $143.50 soaked it in bleach or some other chemical solution re-colored the corners and sold it as a BIN for $175.00 on August 12 2020.

[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey Pat
Nice find., Just curious why it took over a year to post about it? It's always good to out fraud but just curious

I just found it while doing some research Leon and although he doesn't have anything listed on ebay right now he was still selling on there recently.

[jb217676]

Originally Posted by Leon

I was/am hoping Larry will explain some more. I prefer to let folks come clean themselves if possible. This is new stuff happening very recently, as well as, what looks like at least a few years back.

Thanks Leon, didn't know how far this went back. How do you get the jersey card out of the T206 Buyback holder without damaging it. I just don't get it.

[Tabe]

Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...

i tend to agree with this sentiment...

[2dueces]

Collectors noticed this problem recently on Ebay this year.. I don't think they had any idea the OP had been called out on it before in 2009. Makes you go hmmmmmmm.

[7nohitter]

That thread from 2009 is eye opening.

I'm wondering if the OP sold to the wrong person and that person is in a position to demand restitution immediately.

I can see Leon's POV in giving Larry the chance to address the issues himself, but there's got to be a "within a reasonable timeframe" caveat to that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even without considering the additional cost of acquiring the frames, very little profit there, unless that list is the tip of a larger iceberg.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

That thread from 2009 is eye opening.

I'm wondering if the OP sold to the wrong person and that person is in a position to demand restitution immediately.

I can see Leon's POV in giving Larry the chance to address the issues himself, but there's got to be a "within a reasonable timeframe" caveat to that.

I thought 1 day was long enough but regardless of what anyone does, anytime, someone will disagree with it. It really doesn't matter so I just do what I think is best. And I should add that I was also getting advice on some things so not everything can or should be done immediately.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Put me in the "don't forgive or forget" camp. This isn't a mistake. It's not innocent. It's deliberate, repeated fraud. And it appears to have been going on for nearly a decade.

And Leon, all due respect, but you need to post what you know right away without waiting for Larry. Every day you wait is another day that an auction drops off of being visible on Ebay if it reaches the time limit...

This hasn't been known long. Things don't happen overnight and this isn't CSI. Here is some more evidence and I don't have more besides before and after scans of almost all, if not all, of the sales below. A heads up was given to me by another board member in a PM to start it all. I contacted Larry, he didn't come clean until then. He was told it was his choice, he could post about it or I would. I will be contacting ebay too but I don't know what my success will be there. Larry is banned from the BST now. I am sure more later...

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by Leon

This hasn't been known long. Things don't happen overnight and this isn't CSI. Here is some more evidence and I don't have more besides before and after scans of almost all, if not all, of the sales below. A heads up was given to me by another board member in a PM to start it all. I contacted Larry, he didn't come clean until then. He was told it was his choice, he could post about it or I would. I will be contacting ebay too but I don't know what my success will be there. Larry is banned from the BST now. I am sure more later...

So he's sorry he got caught, not necessarily sorry he did it (repeatedly).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

So he's sorry he got caught, not necessarily sorry he did it (repeatedly).

That is my take and again, he got caught by another board member who sent me a PM. That PM prompted and started this.....

[T206Collector]

Here's an article about how this could really get out of hand...

http://www.andybroome.com/?p=38

Here's a fake Cobb in one...

https://twitter.com/broomewithaview/...89713622552577

And a thread about removing the cards from the holders...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=87666

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Leon

This hasn't been known long. Things don't happen overnight and this isn't CSI. Here is some more evidence and I don't have more besides before and after scans of almost all, if not all, of the sales below. A heads up was given to me by another board member in a PM to start it all. I contacted Larry, he didn't come clean until then. He was told it was his choice, he could post about it or I would. I will be contacting ebay too but I don't know what my success will be there. Larry is banned from the BST now. I am sure more later...

Don't want you to think I was ignoring you, Leon. I appreciate the response.