The Ohtani 50 50 ball -- lawsuit to stop Goldin Auction

[Peter_Spaeth]

Please delete if already posted. Plaintiff claims consignor stole the ball from him after he gained possession.

https://sports.yahoo.com/fan-claimin...195832628.html

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Please delete if already posted. Plaintiff claims consignor stole the ball from him after he gained possession.

https://sports.yahoo.com/fan-claimin...195832628.html

It's hard to see the exact moment of "possession" from those videos, but clearly Belanski wrestled it away from Matus.

[oldjudge]

"Belanski put his “arm in between his legs and wrangled the 50/50 Ball out "

He's just lucky Belanski got the right ball

[Peter_Spaeth]

Update.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ani-50-50-ball

[Peter_Spaeth]

This reminds me so much of the fictionalized Bobby Thomson home run ball arm wrestling scene under the seat in Dom Delillo's Underworld (Pafko at the Wall).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Had the game been in LA, the Dodger staff probably would have locked the guy in a room with no food or bathroom until he traded the ball for an autographed photo.

[campyfan39]

If someone did rip the ball out of an 18-year-olds hand, that's some crap

[Peter_Spaeth]

Full evidentiary hearing October 10, which is before the auction ends. A settlement between Matus and Belanski would not surprise me, obviously there will be plenty of money to go around.

[todeen]

I watched the film, and you can see the 18yo visibly upset losing the ball. I'm not sure what precedent there is, but I vaguely remember other lawsuits like this previously. Was it for a McGwire ball, or Bonds?

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[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by todeen

I watched the film, and you can see the 18yo visibly upset losing the ball. I'm not sure what precedent there is, but I vaguely emerge other lawsuits like this previously. Was it for a McGwire ball, or Bonds?

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It was the Bonds ball. Popov v. Hayashi - the judge split ownership of the ball between the first guy to lay hands on it (but immediately got it knocked away by a pile of fans tackling him) and the guy who ended up with it after picking it up off the floor while everyone else was squishing the firsy guy.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

It was the Bonds ball. Popov v. Hayashi - the judge split ownership of the ball between the first guy to lay hands on it (but immediately got it knocked away by a pile of fans tackling him) and the guy who ended up with it after picking it up off the floor while everyone else was squishing the firsy guy.

Thank you. I hope this kids lawyer knows precedent.

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[rats60]

Originally Posted by todeen

Thank you. I hope this kids lawyer knows precedent.

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With the Bonds ball, the plaintiff was wearing a baseball glove and caught the ball in his glove. The people around him knocked the ball out of his glove and the defendant ended up in possession of the ball.

Here no one caught the ball, it was loose on the ground and the parties were fighting to gain posssession of it.

[Keith H. Thompson]

"possession being 9/10 of the law?" I've always thought that strong arm methods, beating up small kids, and martial tactics are just part of the game. And you have to be there in person to appreciate it. One game at Fenway years ago vs the Yankees in the seventies, my small son, about 10 years ago, upon exiting via a rooftop spied a ball near the edge, perhaps a foul ignored during the game. As he literally had it in his hand, a grown man pushed him over on his head and took it away from him. It was dangerous. The man disappeared, but I was furious and complained to management by mail. They mailed me two baseballs for which we were grateful. I also recall that Phil Rizutto was an onlooker and sympathized with my son which took all of the sting out of it. It wasn't an official exit, sort of player's exit.

[steve B]

Three games to go, and he's at 53/56

Yeah , a super long shot, but I'm sort of rooting for him to get to 60/60 and complicate things a bit.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by steve B

Three games to go, and he's at 53/56

Yeah , a super long shot, but I'm sort of rooting for him to get to 60/60 and complicate things a bit.

If he ends up at 53 HR isn’t that ball more valuable? That *is* the record.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If he ends up at 53 HR isn’t that ball more valuable? That *is* the record.

What record? Most home runs by a player with 56 or more stolen bases?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by rats60

With the Bonds ball, the plaintiff was wearing a baseball glove and caught the ball in his glove. The people around him knocked the ball out of his glove and the defendant ended up in possession of the ball.



Here no one caught the ball, it was loose on the ground and the parties were fighting to gain posssession of it.

The way I see the video, the 18yo is the first person in the camera view, and is standing in the location the ball lands after bouncing off the sign. He is the first person there until others run in to make the dog pile, including the man who comes away with the ball. The 18yo bends over to grab the ball and is unable to stand up with the ball because he is stuck, most likely by the man who comes away with the ball. I think it is very possible the judge will see it this way to as long as the boys lawyer is a convincing story teller.

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[Mark17]

This thread reads like Cris Collinsworth calling the play by play on a fumble.
"When did the ball come out? Did the first guy have full possession with a knee on the ground?"

[Peter_Spaeth]

If this is the only video evidence, I think it doesn't tell a conclusive story that Matus had possession of the ball for however long it takes to establish that Belanski actually took it away from him. The judge would also have to believe his testimony. This ball will sell for so much that the parties should compromise this and not risk walking away with nothing, IMO.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If this is the only video evidence, I think it doesn't tell a conclusive story that Matus had possession of the ball for however long it takes to establish that Belanski actually took it away from him. The judge would also have to believe his testimony. This ball will sell for so much that the parties should compromise this and not risk walking away with nothing, IMO.

If the judge is wise, he will call them both into chambers and offer to have the ball cut down the middle, giving half of it to each of them, and astutely deduce from their reactions who is the true owner.

[D. Bergin]

I don’t know man. 18 year old looked like maybe the 3rd person in there. Certainly not conclusive.

Can’t throw a winning lottery ticket into a crowd and expect people to be civil.

[oldjudge]

I must admit that I don’t see the beauty of owning a baseball like this(it looks like any other baseball) but, that said, it is easier to see the appeal of an unbroken record ball, like Barry Bonds’ 73rd HR ball. This ball is the 50/50 ball. Isn’t the 51/50 ball or the 52/56 ball even better?

[Vintagedeputy]

I watched the video a couple of times and I believe the 18-year-old kid in the red Miami shirt had the ball in his hand, and the guy on the ground was holding his arm and applying enough force to wrench the ball from him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I must admit that I don’t see the beauty of owning a baseball like this(it looks like any other baseball) but, that said, it is easier to see the appeal of an unbroken record ball, like Barry Bonds’ 73rd HR ball. This ball is the 50/50 ball. Isn’t the 51/50 ball or the 52/56 ball even better?

I would think not, it's the milestone that matters.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

If the judge is wise, he will call them both into chambers and offer to have the ball cut down the middle, giving half of it to each of them, and astutely deduce from their reactions who is the true owner.

LOL. Had the same thought, so I looked up the Seinfeld episode where Newman (as an homage to the Judgement of Solomon story from the Hebrew Bible) suggested cutting the bike in half, so both Elaine and Kramer could have equal shares, and Kramer's outraged reaction to harming the bike proved he should be the rightful owner. Funny stuff.

[Fred]

I couldn't tell what happened in the scrum. Perhaps they need to send the footage to New York for a review (frame by frame). At the end of the video, you would see the kid mouthing "fffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkk".

If that guy used physical force to rip it out of the kids hand, would that be battery?

What would be even funnier is if the stadium security took the person with the ball to a location to provide "authentication of the ball" and then pull a switch and giving the person another game used ball.

I wonder if Ohtani's ex-interpreter had a bet that he'd homer in that at bat?

[Peter_Spaeth]

In the opening chapter of Underworld, there's a scrum under the seats for the Thomson ball, and it's the older (white) guy who gets to it first. Then the younger (black) kid gives his wrist an "Indian burn" and grabs it from him. The non-violent encounter between the two afterwards, which carries on to the edge of Harlem, is epic. And here we now have the scene, in real life.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Fred

If that guy used physical force to rip it out of the kids hand, would that be battery?

From what I could tell, yes, If they each had a hand on the ball and it was a tug-of-war, that would be one thing. This looks like the kid had his hand on the ball, and the man on the ground had his legs around the kids arm, crushing it, and then wrenched the ball from him.

Again, very difficult to see exactly what happened, but the kid’s reaction certainly seemed like he believed he had possession of the ball and it was taken from him.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This thread reads like Cris Collinsworth calling the play by play on a fumble.

"When did the ball come out? Did the first guy have full possession with a knee on the ground?"

this is very funny! who's the best play by play announcer you'd want to hear from calling the action in court?

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[Mark17]

Originally Posted by todeen

this is very funny! who's the best play by play announcer you'd want to hear from calling the action in court?

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It would be a great comedy skit to have John Madden calling it. "The first guy has it, then BOOM! The second guy comes in and DOINK! hits him on the head..."

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Mark17

It would be a great comedy skit to have John Madden calling it. "The first guy has it, then BOOM! The second guy comes in and DOINK! hits him on the head..."

I forgot all about Madden! Great choice

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[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by todeen

this is very funny! who's the best play by play announcer you'd want to hear from calling the action in court?

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Joe Buck...

...said nobody, ever.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by todeen

I forgot all about Madden! Great choice

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Every time I hear “boom”, I always have to finish by saying…”tough actin’ Tinactin!” Now my 7 year-old daughter does it too…lol

[oldjudge]

I believe Ohtani is one HR from 55/55. Certainly, that trumps 50/50 and would take a lot of the shine off that 50/50 ball.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I believe Ohtani is one HR from 55/55. Certainly, that trumps 50/50 and would take a lot of the shine off that 50/50 ball.

Agree! I would want the most recent ball (55/55) than the 50/50 that was the first 50/50.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

Agree! I would want the most recent ball (55/55) than the 50/50 that was the first 50/50.

Did both McGwire 62 and 70 sell publicly?

[oldjudge]

Yah, how they doing now? 🤣

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Yah, how they doing now? 🤣

LOL. Just wondering which sold for more, as an analogy.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Did both McGwire 62 and 70 sell publicly?

70 sold for 3 million dollars, the most ever paid for a HR ball. 62 was caught by a Cardinals groundskeeper who gave the ball to McGwire.

[oldjudge]

I wonder what that 70 ball is worth today

[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL the plot thickens.

https://sports.yahoo.com/does-shohei...190249763.html

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

LOL the plot thickens.

https://sports.yahoo.com/does-shohei...190249763.html

Which guy is he in the videos?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Which guy is he in the videos?

I think it was earlier, he had the ball, it was knocked away then rolled to where Matus and Belanski tangled? He says.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think it was earlier, he had the ball, it was knocked away then rolled to where Matus and Belanski tangled? He says.

Oh, wow. This could take awhile to sort out.

[todeen]

Here is a view, once the green shirt guy misses it the second time, the first person in the frame on the ground is the 18 yo Matus.
https://youtube.com/shorts/C-QLPZ4DJ...JWkc3Wy1CU3xTb

I don't see a striped shirt guy as the first or second guy in multiple videos. I wonder what video he is providing? the first video on Twitter I saw has not been posted on YouTube. Or it's been buried by influencer videos.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL WTF. This guy is full of it.

Video footage from the stands shows Davidov, wearing a blue-and-white striped shirt, smiling and shaking Belanski's hand after the latter man had secured the ball. Workman attributed that action to "the adrenaline, the historic moment."

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ESMoqp5_o00

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Fred

If that guy used physical force to rip it out of the kids hand, would that be battery?

It alleges so in the lawsuit.

I think the kid gets a settlement. He has a good lawyer and video evidence supports his claims.

[tiger8mush]

Should the courts allow Goldin to run the auction to establish the value of the ball?

[packs]

I find it hard to understand why the auction would be allowed to proceed. If the 18 year old wins the suit and is awarded possession, it's not up to anyone but him as to whether or not he sells the ball.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I find it hard to understand why the auction would be allowed to proceed. If the 18 year old wins the suit and is awarded possession, it's not up to anyone but him as to whether or not he sells the ball.

Or is his claim for money damages for having his property taken from him?