The Ohtani 50 50 ball -- lawsuit to stop Goldin Auction

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by todeen

I watched the film, and you can see the 18yo visibly upset losing the ball. I'm not sure what precedent there is, but I vaguely emerge other lawsuits like this previously. Was it for a McGwire ball, or Bonds?

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It was the Bonds ball. Popov v. Hayashi - the judge split ownership of the ball between the first guy to lay hands on it (but immediately got it knocked away by a pile of fans tackling him) and the guy who ended up with it after picking it up off the floor while everyone else was squishing the firsy guy.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

It was the Bonds ball. Popov v. Hayashi - the judge split ownership of the ball between the first guy to lay hands on it (but immediately got it knocked away by a pile of fans tackling him) and the guy who ended up with it after picking it up off the floor while everyone else was squishing the firsy guy.

Thank you. I hope this kids lawyer knows precedent.

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[rats60]

Originally Posted by todeen

Thank you. I hope this kids lawyer knows precedent.

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With the Bonds ball, the plaintiff was wearing a baseball glove and caught the ball in his glove. The people around him knocked the ball out of his glove and the defendant ended up in possession of the ball.

Here no one caught the ball, it was loose on the ground and the parties were fighting to gain posssession of it.

[Keith H. Thompson]

"possession being 9/10 of the law?" I've always thought that strong arm methods, beating up small kids, and martial tactics are just part of the game. And you have to be there in person to appreciate it. One game at Fenway years ago vs the Yankees in the seventies, my small son, about 10 years ago, upon exiting via a rooftop spied a ball near the edge, perhaps a foul ignored during the game. As he literally had it in his hand, a grown man pushed him over on his head and took it away from him. It was dangerous. The man disappeared, but I was furious and complained to management by mail. They mailed me two baseballs for which we were grateful. I also recall that Phil Rizutto was an onlooker and sympathized with my son which took all of the sting out of it. It wasn't an official exit, sort of player's exit.

[steve B]

Three games to go, and he's at 53/56

Yeah , a super long shot, but I'm sort of rooting for him to get to 60/60 and complicate things a bit.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by steve B

Three games to go, and he's at 53/56

Yeah , a super long shot, but I'm sort of rooting for him to get to 60/60 and complicate things a bit.

If he ends up at 53 HR isn’t that ball more valuable? That *is* the record.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by calvindog

If he ends up at 53 HR isn’t that ball more valuable? That *is* the record.

What record? Most home runs by a player with 56 or more stolen bases?

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson

"possession being 9/10 of the law?" I've always thought that strong arm methods, beating up small kids, and martial tactics are just part of the game. And you have to be there in person to appreciate it. One game at Fenway years ago vs the Yankees in the seventies, my small son, about 10 years ago, upon exiting via a rooftop spied a ball near the edge, perhaps a foul ignored during the game. As he literally had it in his hand, a grown man pushed him over on his head and took it away from him. It was dangerous. The man disappeared, but I was furious and complained to management by mail. They mailed me two baseballs for which we were grateful. I also recall that Phil Rizutto was an onlooker and sympathized with my son which took all of the sting out of it. It wasn't an official exit, sort of player's exit.

The reminded me of something like this I saw a few years back. Like most people would, I find an adult strong-arming a kid out of a ball beyond repugnant. I'm not a lawyer, but I think such an act would constitute battery. I was at a game in Baltimore sitting near first base, when this happened. Onlookers cussed the guy out but he didn't care. This was basically a mugging. The first base umpire, having caught the episode out of the corner of his eye, came over after the inning ended and handed a ball to the kid.

It restored my faith in umpires. Well sorta.

[D. Bergin]

Ok, I guess I'm going to be the one a*@hole to say this.

18 year-olds were drafted to go to Vietnam and I have a cousin who signed up for the Marines and was sent to Afghanistan at that age.

18 year-olds are playing Division 1 College Sports all over this country, and many are competing on a high level.

I've run into plenty of 18 year olds I would not want to get into a fist fight with because I would most assuredly lose.

Not sure if the guy doing the strong-arming for the lottery ticket randomly thrown into the crowd was supposed to check birth certificates before diving under bleacher seats for a ball.

I to have seen adults act like an ass at Minor League games chasing a worthless ball, although most will just turn around and hand it to the nearest kid anyways.

You can bet though, if that ball had a bank account number on it, which unlocked a key to a 7 figure payday, those adults wouldn't be so quick to hand the ball over to the nearest doe eyed kid they could find.

Maybe I was the only one thinking this throughout the course of this thread...or I'm the only one to admit it.

[packs]

I don't know how much age factors into other people's opinions on this behavior, but I tend to think if you have to rip something out of someone's hand to take possession of it, you didn't catch the baseball.

[vintagerookies51]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ok, I guess I'm going to be the one a*@hole to say this.

18 year-olds were drafted to go to Vietnam and I have a cousin who signed up for the Marines and was sent to Afghanistan at that age.

18 year-olds are playing Division 1 College Sports all over this country, and many are competing on a high level.

I've run into plenty of 18 year olds I would not want to get into a fist fight with because I would most assuredly lose.

Not sure if the guy doing the strong-arming for the lottery ticket randomly thrown into the crowd was supposed to check birth certificates before diving under bleacher seats for a ball.

I to have seen adults act like an ass at Minor League games chasing a worthless ball, although most will just turn around and hand it to the nearest kid anyways.

You can bet though, if that ball had a bank account number on it, which unlocked a key to a 7 figure payday, those adults wouldn't be so quick to hand the ball over to the nearest doe eyed kid they could find.

Maybe I was the only one thinking this throughout the course of this thread...or I'm the only one to admit it.

I'm gonna have to kinda agree with this. None of the videos I saw showed that the 18 year old ever even had a hand on the ball. For all we know the guy who ended up with the ball had it the whole time. People are acting like he straight up stole it from a 9 year old. To call this battery seems extreme, but if there is a video I'm missing please post it

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Ok, I guess I'm going to be the one a*@hole to say this.

18 year-olds were drafted to go to Vietnam and I have a cousin who signed up for the Marines and was sent to Afghanistan at that age.

18 year-olds are playing Division 1 College Sports all over this country, and many are competing on a high level.

I've run into plenty of 18 year olds I would not want to get into a fist fight with because I would most assuredly lose.

Not sure if the guy doing the strong-arming for the lottery ticket randomly thrown into the crowd was supposed to check birth certificates before diving under bleacher seats for a ball.

I to have seen adults act like an ass at Minor League games chasing a worthless ball, although most will just turn around and hand it to the nearest kid anyways.

You can bet though, if that ball had a bank account number on it, which unlocked a key to a 7 figure payday, those adults wouldn't be so quick to hand the ball over to the nearest doe eyed kid they could find.

Maybe I was the only one thinking this throughout the course of this thread...or I'm the only one to admit it.

Right but not really the point. The issue is whether the kid had possession or not. If he did, their ages, physiques, personality traits, etc. are irrelevant to his claim of ownership. That said, given the nature of a scrum for a loose ball, I'm not sure a split second grab is enough.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by kcohen

The reminded me of something like this I saw a few years back. Like most people would, I find an adult strong-arming a kid out of a ball beyond repugnant. I'm not a lawyer, but I think such an act would constitute battery. I was at a game in Baltimore sitting near first base, when this happened. Onlookers cussed the guy out but he didn't care. This was basically a mugging. The first base umpire, having caught the episode out of the corner of his eye, came over after the inning ended and handed a ball to the kid.

It restored my faith in umpires. Well sorta.

The complaint does contain a count for battery, related to trapping the kid's arm.

[Exhibitman]

I once caught the drumstick at a George Thorogood and the Destroyers concert and was in basically the same sort of scrum. I just went down and covered up like I had a fumble recovery and came away with the stick when the dust settled. I think I threw it away later, so there's that. Far more fun was being at the foot of the stage at the end of the show and getting to shake hands with the band.

The court will sort it out, but if it emerges that the guy pinned down the other guy's arm and pried the ball out of his hand, well, where I was born, we called that "getting mugged." I give the 18 y.o. credit for self-restraint. I know me at 18 would probably have ended up in cuffs for assault; I did once get into a fight in the street with a would-be mugger. 92nd Street between West End and Riverside in NYC. I was a kid. I got so mad when the bigger kid who was mugging me insisted that I turn out my pockets that I threw punches instead. I got the worst of it in the end, but I kept my money. Today, the old fart me would have been too busy ducking to avoid getting hit by the ball and the pouncing people to even get into the scrum. Young me, not so much.

How long will it be until two or three guys square up and really punch it out over a ball?

And while I am spewing random thoughts on this, a reason why 50 is better than 55 may be round number bias. It's the 50/50 club, not the 55/56 club.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by rats60

With the Bonds ball, the plaintiff was wearing a baseball glove and caught the ball in his glove. The people around him knocked the ball out of his glove and the defendant ended up in possession of the ball.



Here no one caught the ball, it was loose on the ground and the parties were fighting to gain posssession of it.

The way I see the video, the 18yo is the first person in the camera view, and is standing in the location the ball lands after bouncing off the sign. He is the first person there until others run in to make the dog pile, including the man who comes away with the ball. The 18yo bends over to grab the ball and is unable to stand up with the ball because he is stuck, most likely by the man who comes away with the ball. I think it is very possible the judge will see it this way to as long as the boys lawyer is a convincing story teller.

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[Mark17]

This thread reads like Cris Collinsworth calling the play by play on a fumble.
"When did the ball come out? Did the first guy have full possession with a knee on the ground?"

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Mark17

This thread reads like Cris Collinsworth calling the play by play on a fumble.

"When did the ball come out? Did the first guy have full possession with a knee on the ground?"

this is very funny! who's the best play by play announcer you'd want to hear from calling the action in court?

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[Mark17]

Originally Posted by todeen

this is very funny! who's the best play by play announcer you'd want to hear from calling the action in court?

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It would be a great comedy skit to have John Madden calling it. "The first guy has it, then BOOM! The second guy comes in and DOINK! hits him on the head..."

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by todeen

this is very funny! who's the best play by play announcer you'd want to hear from calling the action in court?

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Joe Buck...

...said nobody, ever.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If this is the only video evidence, I think it doesn't tell a conclusive story that Matus had possession of the ball for however long it takes to establish that Belanski actually took it away from him. The judge would also have to believe his testimony. This ball will sell for so much that the parties should compromise this and not risk walking away with nothing, IMO.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If this is the only video evidence, I think it doesn't tell a conclusive story that Matus had possession of the ball for however long it takes to establish that Belanski actually took it away from him. The judge would also have to believe his testimony. This ball will sell for so much that the parties should compromise this and not risk walking away with nothing, IMO.

If the judge is wise, he will call them both into chambers and offer to have the ball cut down the middle, giving half of it to each of them, and astutely deduce from their reactions who is the true owner.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

If the judge is wise, he will call them both into chambers and offer to have the ball cut down the middle, giving half of it to each of them, and astutely deduce from their reactions who is the true owner.

LOL. Had the same thought, so I looked up the Seinfeld episode where Newman (as an homage to the Judgement of Solomon story from the Hebrew Bible) suggested cutting the bike in half, so both Elaine and Kramer could have equal shares, and Kramer's outraged reaction to harming the bike proved he should be the rightful owner. Funny stuff.

[D. Bergin]

I don’t know man. 18 year old looked like maybe the 3rd person in there. Certainly not conclusive.

Can’t throw a winning lottery ticket into a crowd and expect people to be civil.

[oldjudge]

I must admit that I don’t see the beauty of owning a baseball like this(it looks like any other baseball) but, that said, it is easier to see the appeal of an unbroken record ball, like Barry Bonds’ 73rd HR ball. This ball is the 50/50 ball. Isn’t the 51/50 ball or the 52/56 ball even better?