T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[RCMcKenzie]

70/74 of AB460 is a great run so far. Good luck finding the last 4...Here are a couple from this series, an ex12 Devore and a Fred Payne... I don't really know why they are labeling the Chance batting trimmed. Looks okay to me.

[Ronnie73]

I've never understood when PSA calls an American Beauty trimmed. I usually use it to my advantage and buy PSA graded cards with the trimmed authentic or off center qualifier at a discount but only if they look untrimmed to me.

[t206kid]

Ted, remind me the last 4 AB460s you're missing!? So crazy to be that far on such a tough back subset.

[tedzan]

Hey Jay

The 4 dudes to complete my AB 460 run are...…

Camnitz (arms over head)

L. Doyle (portrait)

McGraw (portrait with cap)

Tinker (bat off shoulder)


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

I've never understood when PSA calls an American Beauty trimmed. I usually use it to my advantage and buy PSA graded cards with the trimmed authentic or off center qualifier at a discount but only if they look untrimmed to me.

Ron

We think alike..... I do the same as you, regarding "A" graded AMERICAN BEAUTY cards (especially AB 460 cards).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Jay

The 4 dudes to complete my AB 460 run are...…

Camnitz (arms over head)

L. Doyle (portrait)

McGraw (portrait with cap)

Tinker (bat off shoulder)
.

Jay

I started my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 run in 2005. I attained my current 70-card run 4 years ago. And, these elusive 4 listed here have been un-attainable for me.

You are great at finding tough T206's like these, so keep me in mind.

We've done some nice trades in the past, and hopefully we can do some more with respect to any of these four.

Thanks, Guy


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, this thread was...."the beginning of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 883.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

Posts #884 >> 900.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #901 >> 916.....Group of 36 subjects (350 Series) that are CB, EPDG, OM, PB NO-PRINTS

Posts #917 >> 944.....MISSION (99%) ACCOMPLISHED American Beauty 460 run. Show your favorite run

Posts #945 >> 950.....Red Ink "Twins" > HINDU and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 cards


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *

. . . .

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

70/74 of AB460 is a great run so far. Good luck finding the last 4...Here are a couple from this series, an ex12 Devore and a Fred Payne... I don't really know why they are labeling the Chance batting trimmed. Looks okay to me.

Hi Rob

It's futile to try and understood why PSA grades AB 460 cards as "trimmed". And DITTO for SGC....when I acquired this Jennings card (circa 2012)
it had been graded an "A". And, that was just fine with me, as it was A-ffordable.

.




I cracked it open and submitted it back to SGC, and this time it came back a "60". So, both of these two TPG's really don't know how to grade
these AB 460 cards.







Incidentally,

I just returned home from the National. The Chicago Show is always absolutely the best. I had a good Show, sold a lot of cards, including several
T206 Red HINDU cards.

However, the highlight of the Show for me was all you Net54 guys who stopped by to have some really interesting T206 discussions.

Thanks, Guys


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






At the National, five Net54 "readers" (these guys don't post) visited with me at my booth and we had some interesting conversations regarding their T206 collections.

Four of these guys strictly collect UNGRADED T206's.

One collects only GRADED.

And a regular Net54er, Chris R, whose 520-card set is a combination of GRADED and UNGRADED.


So, here is the latest tally...…

We now have 9 guys whose T206 cards are strictly UNGRADED.

Three who collect only GRADED T206's.

Four whose collections are a mixture of both GRADED and UNGRADED T206's.

And, one that is too early to tell (Hi Leon).


Although this is a small informal survey; nevertheless, it somewhat reflects a trend. Perhaps, more T206 collectors will chime in here with their Show-n-Tell stories.



TED Z
.

[rommesc]

Hi Ted,
Not sure if I was included in the tally on how T206’s are collected, but my 520 set is a combination of graded and raw. The graded cards were bought that way and left in the slabs.

Thank you for taking the time to talk at The National. The things I look forward to the most at The National are catching up with fellow collectors and meeting new ones.

Take care,
Chris

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by rommesc

Hi Ted,
Not sure if I was included in the tally on how T206’s are collected, but my 520 set is a combination of graded and raw. The graded cards were bought that way and left in the slabs.

Thank you for taking the time to talk at The National. The things I look forward to the most at The National are catching up with fellow collectors and meeting new ones.

Take care,
Chris

Hi Chris

You were included. I have modified my Post #803 to mention your specific input. It's always great "Talkin' T206's" with you.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

70/74 of AB460 is a great run so far. Good luck finding the last 4...Here are a couple from this series, an ex12 Devore and a Fred Payne... I don't really know why they are labeling the Chance batting trimmed. Looks okay to me.

Hi Rob

Your AB 460 Payne is pretty nice. Payne is one of a number of AB 460 cards that are very tough to find. I will search my records to see which AB 460 cards were really difficult
in the process of putting together my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 run. I will post the list of these "toughies" in this thread...…stay tuned.

Thanks for posting your cards here.

TED Z
.