Revisiting the 1910 PC805 Novelty Cutlery Postcard set.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Kevin's knowledge and expertise on these and the RPC sets is incredible and I would consider him one of the leading authorities. Just a theory but it seems to me the 796 preceded the 805. I do think both sets are connected in some way, one thought is Novelty produced both sets, 796 in 1910, 805 in 11. The problem with that argument is why would Novelty do anything without putting their name on it. Another is that Novelty produced the set for someone else in 10 and produced a refined one for themselves in 11. I think the key is who controlled and licensed those images at the time.

Yup, the 796s are lacking the refinement on that end too as the 805s clearly state the NC Canton O in them.

Kevin can correct me here, but the earliest cancelled NC is 1911 while the earliest 796 is 1910...maybe the NC is a 1911 issue while the 796s were issued late 1910 post Frock image and distributed that fall...

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Kevin can correct me here, but the earliest cancelled NC is 1911 while the earliest 796 is 1910...

Yes, those are the earliest postmarks that I know of. But, like Rick mentioned, there are not many PC796 and PC805 postcards known with postmarks which is also kind of weird.

Rick quotes 2% of the known postcards have postmarks, which seems to be in the ballpark with me. Other postcards sets have a much higher percentage - usually in the 10 to 20% range.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Yes, those are the earliest postmarks that I know of. But, like Rick mentioned, there are not many PC796 and PC805 postcards known with postmarks which is also kind of weird.

Rick quotes 2% of the known postcards have postmarks, which seems to be in the ballpark with me. Other postcards sets have a much higher percentage - usually in the 10 to 20% range.

Yeah, super low numbers. Maybe if they were give aways with a purchase that has been proposed, the people that bought the product didnt really want the PCs, they wanted the product and hence there are low pops and way lower cancelled cards.

Its all just a guess...the 1910 and 1911 theory does seem to fit though. I mean what are the odds the 805s preceded the 796s? Just seems low to me, nothing is consistent in the 796 production while nearly everything is uniform in the 805s. Some of the names on the 805s are off set to the left, while others are centered. The 805s continued the first name theme only have the same few the 796s had.

Why does Speaker have that symbol next to his name on the 796? Why is Frock even in this set? Rick has a good theory of rep preceding him, just seems like they could have picked someone else, someone they had an image of already if his was from 1910 as theorized.

[Casey2296]

I also think it's significant that the Novelty Cutlery company was located at their new factory at 67 Barr St in 1910 with an adjacent photo studio/gallery depicted in the lower left of the postcard Leon just acquired.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I also think it's significant that the Novelty Cutlery company was located at their new factory at 67 Barr St in 1910 with an adjacent photo studio/gallery depicted in the lower left of the postcard Leon just acquired.

Great card, should have snagged it.

What does the print say in the bottom right? Would be nice to have a date on that move into the new building. PC image looks like summer...

[Casey2296]

Lower right:
1st line looks like RUMD/illegible
2nd line: Martin & Co
3rd line: Detroit

We know they were located at Bar St. in 1910, we also know that the sets were probably not produced prior to that thanks to Kevin's research.

[rainier2004]

Also, as Phil pointed out, the Collins and Crawford look like the images were shot the same day at the same spot. That spot could be Bennett Park in 1909 as Philly came into town 3 times that year and these guys played each other. Doesn't look like Bennett to me though and their meetings were in summer and not spring and everyone has the long sleeves and all.

By 1909 teams were playing in Hot Springs including Philly and Detroit. They had a second field built in 1909 to accommodate all the teams coming for spring training and in 1912 a third field went in. Maybe they were taken there? Wonder how many of these images were taken in spring training?

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

By 1909 teams were playing in Hot Springs including Philly and Detroit. They had a second field built in 1909 to accommodate all the teams coming for spring training and in 1912 a third field went in. Maybe they were taken there? Wonder how many of these images were taken in spring training?

I actually thought that hose images vlooked like they were taken in Hot Springs, AR too. I have not had a chance to do any research though. If they were taken in Spring Training, it is very hard to date the images by their uniforms as it was common for the players to wear uniforms from previous years. I have seen images of teams in Spring Training where the players are dressed in three, four and five different uniforms from past years.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

I actually thought that hose images vlooked like they were taken in Hot Springs, AR too. I have not had a chance to do any research though. If they were taken in Spring Training, it is very hard to date the images by their uniforms as it was common for the players to wear uniforms from previous years. I have seen images of teams in Spring Training where the players are dressed in three, four and five different uniforms from past years.

Pics of those places are around, showing the left field wall from ground view was difficult to find. But yeah, spring training would throw the whole thing off like you said.

Im getting lost a bit, but Rick pointed out the spelling mistakes made. 805s had 4 spelling errors while the 796s only had Honas wrong, seems unlike then the 796s came first to only mess up 3 more players names after words.

Also, why are all the postmarks on the NCs in PA? I havent counted yet, but the 796 that just sold on ebay is also sent from PA.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I also think it's significant that the Novelty Cutlery company was located at their new factory at 67 Barr St in 1910 with an adjacent photo studio/gallery depicted in the lower left of the postcard Leon just acquired.

Thanks Phil. It has great clarity in hand.

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