Its not just moser/pwcc...more trimmers exposed

[vintagetoppsguy]

The guys at BO have done an amazing job in their detective work. The before and after pics are irrefutable evidence. Good thing previous auction sales and scans are recorded.

But I wonder how many doctored cards are out there residing in PSA slabs that will never be known? Cards where there are no before scans available? Cards that Moser purchased at a shop, show or other private sale for doctoring? I guess we'll truly never know.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The guys at BO have done an amazing job in their detective work. The before and after pics are irrefutable evidence. Good thing previous auction sales and scans are recorded.

But I wonder how many doctored cards are out there residing in PSA slabs that will never be known? Cards where there are no before scans available? Cards that Moser purchased at a shop, show or other private sale for doctoring? I guess we'll truly never know.

As I have posted this goes WELL beyond this single individual. There are many card doctors.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As I have posted this goes WELL beyond this single individual. There are many card doctors.

Understood. My statement wasn't really about the doctors, but about the doctored cards. They're easy to verify because there are before and after photos. I was just pondering how many exist that we'll never know about because the cards were purchased at a shop or show or other private sale, were doctored, but we'll never know about because there were no before photos for comparison.

After PSA cleans house and gets rid of the employees that were involved, dont you think they should offer some kind of service to their customers like a FREE evaluation? For what it's worth I think Sloan is a piece of crap for not addressing this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Understood. My statement wasn't really about the doctors, but about the doctored cards. They're easy to verify because there are before and after photos. I was just pondering how many exist that we'll never know about because the cards were purchased at a shop or show or other private sale, were doctored, but we'll never know about because there were no before photos for comparison.

After PSA cleans house and gets rid of the employees that were involved, dont you think they should offer some kind of service to their customers like a FREE evaluation? For what it's worth I think Sloan is a piece of crap for not addressing this.

We'll never know more than a fraction of it. The good news I guess is that SO many cards are out there it may still add up to a relatively low percentage, if that's any consolation.

We'll just have to wait and see if they say anything, or if they are forced to by the market.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Understood. My statement wasn't really about the doctors, but about the doctored cards. They're easy to verify because there are before and after photos. I was just pondering how many exist that we'll never know about because the cards were purchased at a shop or show or other private sale, were doctored, but we'll never know about because there were no before photos for comparison.

After PSA cleans house and gets rid of the employees that were involved, dont you think they should offer some kind of service to their customers like a FREE evaluation? For what it's worth I think Sloan is a piece of crap for not addressing this.

If law enforcement gets involved I assume that Moser and others would verify that ALL of their submissions from the last x years are cards they worked on, like that 950 card submission shown earlier. Once that gets out then the PSA guarantee would be for ALL those cards and would get removed from the Registry.

[Bored5000]

This just sucks for the hobby, because it is not just a few cards or a few dozen cards; there are already thousands of cards involved and in holders, never to be removed as they get passed from buyer to buyer.

I am floored by how many sub $100 cards are involved with this.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Once that gets out then the PSA guarantee would be for ALL those cards and would get removed from the Registry.

You and I are on the same page. I still also suggest a front page article in the SMR Magazine.

[Bram99]

The title of this thread is about other card physicians practicing alteration or conservation or whatever you want to call it. Is there a handy list of the names, ebay accounts, etc for those who have not read the 1000's of notes on this between net54 and BO this weekend?

Tony

[swarmee]

Other known card doctors getting cards past the Third Party Grading services and listing through PWCC, Probstein, etc. to cover their tracks:

Bill Sliheet - SSIGuy (Superior Sports Investments)
Samir Sliheet - Superior Sports Investments
Nate Nichols - affiliated with the Dallas area BGS trimmers
Will Jaimet - Heroes of Sport, submitter to PWCC
Gary Moser - eBay whitman111 vintage cards dating back to 1880s consigned to PWCC after grading by PSA
Eric Bitz - Buynicecards
Brian Deer- isellurcards (formerly Bristol Collectibles)
Kevin Burge- longtime modern card dealer
Robert Block - longtime trimmer of cards to BGS, submitted to PWCC
Brent Huigens - owner of PWCC, co-conspirator with many of these guys
Dick Towle - owner of Gone With The Stain
Steve Tormollan
Circumstantial Evidence: BGS giving preferential grades to WJCII (Joe Clemons), former employee "BLACK LABELGATE" 60+ page thread on Blowout.
Circumstantial Evidence: Gabriel Seraf replacing boring patches with SICK MOJO PATCHES