Pre War Era Players you don't see in HOF discussions

[skelly423]

He straddles era, but I’m going to throw Dom DiMaggio into the ring. He was probably the best defensive centerfielder of his day (and I include older brother Joe in that assessment). Like so many he was on track for the important counting stats before WWII service interrupted his career. The career totals appear lacking because of it, but I won’t punish a player for serving his country, and think that had he maintained his prewar production over the war years, he’d be in the hall already.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by skelly423

He straddles era, but I’m going to throw Dom DiMaggio into the ring. He was probably the best defensive centerfielder of his day (and I include older brother Joe in that assessment). Like so many he was on track for the important counting stats before WWII service interrupted his career. The career totals appear lacking because of it, but I won’t punish a player for serving his country, and think that had he maintained his prewar production over the war years, he’d be in the hall already.

I think the difficulty when it comes to so many of these players is playing the "What If" game, when it comes to the War. Especially when it comes to the borderline guys, like Dom. He was an incredible center fielder, I think the unfortunate part of the equation is that while he was very good, in the non war years, he wasn't good enough. I'm surprised he didn't get in on the veterans committee though, back in the day.

[cgjackson222]

Pre-War players that I think are talked about a lot:
1) Bill Dahlen
2) Jim McCormick
3) Jack Glasscock


Pre-War players that I think are not talked about enough (not in any particular order):
1) Harry Stovey
2) Wes Ferrell
3) Urban Shocker
4) Pete Browning
5) Babe Herman
6) Babe Adams
7) Josh Beckwith (Negro Leagues)
8) Bob Caruthers
9) Sherry Magee
10) Tony Mullane
11) Tommy Bond
12) Charlie Buffington
13 Jack Quinn
14 Bob Johnson
15) Stan Hack
16) Bucky Walters
17) Wilbur Cooper
18) Carl Mays
19) Tommy Bridges
20) Larry Doyle
21) Bobby Veach
22) Gavvy Cravath
23) Jimmy Sheckard
24) George Gore
25) William Bell (Negro Leagues)

and many honorably mentions....

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I think a few of the players on your list get enough mention around this forum, anyhow. Stovey is among the most mentioned in my opinion.

Either way, I sure hope a lot of those guys get in! I've been saving many of their autographs for years.

[molenick]

I think Charles's list points out the problem. There are a lot of very good players who were better (at least statistically) than a specific player that is in the Hall.

Wilbur Cooper and Rube Marquard pitched at roughly the same time but Cooper (216-178, 2.89 ERA, 116 ERA+, 93rd ranked starter on Baseball Reference) was by any measure better than Marquard (201-177, 3.08 ERA, 103 ERA+, 252nd ranked starter).

The problem is, Marquard is an easy target because there are literally hundreds of non-HOFers better than Marquard and they're not all getting in. But Marquard pitched in NY, was the “$11,000 lemon", then won 19 games in a row and became a star on pennant-winning teams while Wilbur Cooper was less well-known. And I don't think the VC was doing advanced statistically analysis in 1971 when Marquard got in...it seemed to depend on who was on the committee and if there was some reason a player was still remembered.

So I am all for bringing these players to light and I will even add one I don't think is usually mentioned: Cupid Childs. But in all likelihood very few (if any) of these players will be getting in.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by molenick

I think Charles's list points out the problem. There are a lot of very good players who were better (at least statistically) than a specific player that is in the Hall.

Wilbur Cooper and Rube Marquard pitched at roughly the same time but Cooper (216-178, 2.89 ERA, 116 ERA+, 93rd ranked starter on Baseball Reference) was by any measure better than Marquard (201-177, 3.08 ERA, 103 ERA+, 252nd ranked starter).

The problem is, Marquard is an easy target because there are literally hundreds of non-HOFers better than Marquard and they're not all getting in. But Marquard pitched in NY, was the “$11,000 lemon", then won 19 games in a row and became a star on pennant-winning teams while Wilbur Cooper was less well-known. And I don't think the VC was doing advanced statistically analysis in 1971 when Marquard got in...it seemed to depend on who was on the committee and if there was some reason a player was still remembered.

So I am all for bringing these players to light and I will even add one I don't think is usually mentioned: Cupid Childs. But in all likelihood very few (if any) of these players will be getting in.

I think the majority of the people on my list probably do not belong in the HOF. I just think they should be in the discussion.

[molenick]

I agree with that as well. The Hall is already watered down enough. I am more of the argument now that the best player not in at his position (e.g., Dahlen) should be in rather than looking for players better than the bad choices (Baines, Haines, etc.).

[packs]

Another Ohtani prototype that’s pretty much lost to history is Dave Foutz. He collected more than 1200 hits with a career average of 276 and also won 147 games on the mound, including 41 games and an ERA title in 1886.

[Leon]

+1. The HOF has become the Hall of Mediocre.....don't look at who's in already but who deserves to be in because of their abilities.

Originally Posted by molenick

I agree with that as well. The Hall is already watered down enough. I am more of the argument now that the best player not in at his position (e.g., Dahlen) should be in rather than looking for players better than the bad choices (Baines, Haines, etc.).

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Was just thinking about Caruthers.

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Pre-War players that I think are talked about a lot:
1) Bill Dahlen
2) Jim McCormick
3) Jack Glasscock


Pre-War players that I think are not talked about enough (not in any particular order):
1) Harry Stovey
2) Wes Ferrell
3) Urban Shocker
4) Pete Browning
5) Babe Herman
6) Babe Adams
7) Josh Beckwith (Negro Leagues)
8) Bob Caruthers
9) Sherry Magee
10) Tony Mullane
11) Tommy Bond
12) Charlie Buffington
13 Jack Quinn
14 Bob Johnson
15) Stan Hack
16) Bucky Walters
17) Wilbur Cooper
18) Carl Mays
19) Tommy Bridges
20) Larry Doyle
21) Bobby Veach
22) Gavvy Cravath
23) Jimmy Sheckard
24) George Gore
25) William Bell (Negro Leagues)

and many honorably mentions....