1966 Topps 6th Series/Semi-Hi's

[deweyinthehall]

Still nothing horizontally, but...Wally Bunker is under Mickey Lolich (front images shows yellow bar) and John Wyatt is above Curt Blefary.

Two columns being constructed this way:

Blefary
Klippstein
Wyatt

Lolich
Bunker
Lee
Richardson
Rodgers

[Kevvyg1026]

Since you mentioned Lolich and Blefary

1966_455_top_1.jpg

1966_460_493_BC.jpg

66 6 lolich 4.jpg

1966_455_TE.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

I also think Cannizarro & Belinsky are in the Wyatt column

1966_497_BC.jpg

1966_506_above_521.jpg

1966_506_TC_497.jpg

[deweyinthehall]

This gives us another 5 card partial column - Belinsky, Wyatt, Cannizzaro, Klippstein, Blefary.

[Cliff Bowman]

Lindy McDaniel is to the right of George Banks on a 3x row. Every 1966 McDaniel has the stray print dot that matches the one on the miscut Banks. A seller on eBay has a handful of 1966 6th Series miscuts like this one but I don't know if I will be able to figure anymore out, this is the most obvious one.

[deweyinthehall]

Cliff - I gotta hand it to you for ID'ing McDaniel - I found that Nuxhall has an almost identical ink tag, but it is too far to the right.

What seller is it with the miscuts?

I found a tell-tale tag on Terry Fox as well.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Cliff - I gotta hand it to you for ID'ing McDaniel - I found that Nuxhall has an almost identical ink tag, but it is too far to the right.

What seller is it with the miscuts?

I found a tell-tale tag on Terry Fox as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20474967495...Bk9SR-S45t2ZZQ

[Cliff Bowman]

Radatz has a Twin or a Red to his right, since Radatz is a 4x that eliminates Oliva, Coleman, and Edwards because they are 3x. Nuxhall is a header card so he is eliminated. That leaves McCool, Klippstein, and Rollins. McCool can be eliminated because the top of his box has a unique flaw, plus I think he is to the right of Ellsworth anyway. Rollins is eliminated because there is another Radatz miscut that has Radatz above Rollins. That leaves Klippstein. I would believe it is Klippstein anyway because the black ink is thick all the way through on the Radatz miscut, Klippstein is one of the few players that doesn't have a cartoon because of his long career. So that makes a three card run of Radatz-Klippstein-McAuliffe on a 4x row.

[deweyinthehall]

This is MADDENING! So close yet so far! How does one guy come across so many miscuts like this when they're already so rare?

There are one or two I might take a crack at. There's a couple (like Howard) that look as if they could be right edge cards....but we have all of those...sooo.....

[deweyinthehall]

The Red Sox Rookies card is to the right of Gordy Coleman - note the small bump in the black section between "Rookie" and "Stars". It is consisted with all the samples I have seen, and I reviewed my set and no other rookie stars, Team cards or long-serving players have anything similar.

Boom!

[deweyinthehall]

.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

The Red Sox Rookies card is to the right of Gordy Coleman - note the small bump in the black section between "Rookie" and "Stars". It is consisted with all the samples I have seen, and I reviewed my set and no other rookie stars, Team cards or long-serving players have anything similar.

Boom!

Nice work!

[deweyinthehall]

Looking at the Radatz/Klippstein pairing - With Klippstein (or any other player with a solid black box) the lettering in the name as well as the baseball containing the card number should be visible with this much black showing, shouldn't it.

The only cards with extra black real estate are the team card, but with that blue banner, they are ruled out.

Is there any chance, do we think, that the card is cut right at the bottom of the black border surrounding a cartoon on a normal player card, or do we think it is simply cut right at the top of the lettering of the name and the ball?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

Looking at the Radatz/Klippstein pairing - With Klippstein (or any other player with a solid black box) the lettering in the name as well as the baseball containing the card number should be visible with this much black showing, shouldn't it.

The only cards with extra black real estate are the team card, but with that blue banner, they are ruled out.

Is there any chance, do we think, that the card is cut right at the bottom of the black border surrounding a cartoon on a normal player card, or do we think it is simply cut right at the top of the lettering of the name and the ball?

If that card had a cartoon it would be visible with that much black showing.

[Cliff Bowman]

I think I figured out two more, the card to the right of Grady Hatton has a divot in the black area that matches up with Johnny Wyatt, and the card to the right of Barry Latman has two humps that matches up with Camilo Carreon. All four of the cards have 3x quantities but I have Carreon as the right edge card of a 4x row, but I am beginning to think Carreon is a 3x and not a 4x.

[deweyinthehall]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

If that card had a cartoon it would be visible with that much black showing.

I agree it looks like it has to be a solid black space, I just find it hard to believe that, being that, there is no sign of the baseball or Klippstein's name.

I placed the cards next to each other and I think I was able to cut the Klippstein off to where it shows the necessary thickness of black and yet show no hint of lettering - I also think I noticed a couple barely perceptible flaws in the black border that seemed to match, but my eyes could have been playing tricks on me.


So, it's been a while so I thought I'd summarize our progress thus far:

We have the following row sections:

Banks-McDaniel
Coleman-Red Sox Rookies
O'Donoghue-Buchek
Latman-Carreon
Ferrara-Bennett
Hatton-Wyatt
Jimenez-Phillies Team
Radatz-Klippstein-McAuliffe
Green-Linz

We have 9 total, so at least 2 are part of one of the other 7.

In terms of Columns:

#1
Aaron
Nuxhall
Fox
Moeller
Skinner
Gonzalez
Cubs Rookies (despite my earlier posts showing odd colors under an Aaron)

#10:
Buford
Latman
Azcue

#11:
Hamilton
6th Checklist
7th Checklist
Wood
Giants Rookies
Carreon
Edwards

We can identify the partial 10th column because of the Latman/Carreon horizontal pairing.

We have these partial columns linked because of other horizontal pairings:

Gibbon
Braves Rookies
Coleman

to the left of

Hannan
Schofield
Red Sox Rookies


Radatz
Rollins

to the left of

Blefary
Klippstein
Wyatt
Cannizzaro
Belinsky


Jimenez
O'Donoghue
Bennett
Johnson

to the left of

Phillies Team
Buchek
Wynn
Ferrara


We have the other partial columns:

Bunker
Lee
Richardson
Rodgers
Lolich

Yankees Rookies
Bressoud

Oliva
Simmons
Ellsworth
Howard

McDowell
Bragan

Roznovsky
Kline
Barber


The following cards still have no known vertical or horizontal matches:

Pirates Rookies
Bailey
Covington
Podres
Stuart
Face
McCool
Stanky
A's Team
Cardenal
Hargan
Wilhelm
Stigman
Woodeshick
Friend
Bearnarth


Please check my math.

[Kevvyg1026]

Bailey, 485, is below either a RS or Pirate. My initial thpught was Stigman, 512, but I'm not positive.

Also, recall that O'donoghue is below two different cards. Certainly 458, but also a Twin/Red

1966_485_Pitt-Bos.jpg

1966_501_TC_blue.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

Covington is below either Angel/Brave and above a Chi

1966_484_miscuts.jpg

I have a H pair of 447-459 (Ellsworth-McCool initially thought to be Oliva by changed our mind. still TBD), and a vertical grouping of
515-450-489-447 (Howard-Oliva-Simmons-Ellsworth)

And Friend is below an orange card, perhaps Covington??

1966_519_TC_orange.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

Instead of a Chicago player, it might simply be a color shift and perhaps it is Friend below Covington

[Kevvyg1026]

And this mc of Woodeshick just sold on ebay

1966_514_Woodeshoick_bottom.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

I went back through the thread and spotted a couple that were overlooked. Grady Hatton is above the the Athletics Team card. If Dick Ellsworth is a 4x he has Bill McCool to his right, if he is a 3x he has Tony Oliva to his right. Ellsworth is one of those cards that always has quantities in the gray area for being either a 3x or a 4x. ETA I just noticed that we have Ellsworth and Oliva in the same column so it has to be McCool to the right of Ellsworth. Ellsworth probably is a 4x, it is a notorious card because it pictures Ken Hubbs so the demand for it likely keeps its' quantities down.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Bailey, 485, is below either a RS or Pirate. My initial thpught was Stigman, 512, but I'm not positive.

I came to the conclusion that it is Dick Stigman above Bob Bailey when comparing Stigman to the miscut.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

And this mc of Woodeshick just sold on ebay

Attachment 650046

I bought the Woodeshick and a miscut Barry Latman that might have Larry Bearnarth under him from the same seller on eBay, I will post better scans of both when I get them.

[Kevvyg1026]

There is also a Twin or Red above Tommy John

1966_486_TC_Twin.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

And this mc of Mcdaniel is below a RS or Pitt. Not sure why, but I had it initially identifed as 456, RS rooks, but I can't recall why

1966_496_TC_RS.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

Is this a rookie card above Azcue?

1966_452_RC_above.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

and this Ken Johnson mc

66 K JOHNSON TOP.jpg

1966_466_TC_Pir__RS.jpg

[Kevvyg1026]

right of Stigman

66 6 stigman_right_and Top.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

and this Ken Johnson mc

Attachment 650081

Attachment 650082

I have Dennis Bennett as confirmed above Ken Johnson.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

right of Stigman

Attachment 650083

Stigman is a 4x, unfortunately I don't see any print anomalies so it could be Radatz, Green, Bennett, or Face.

[Cliff Bowman]

I think it might be Bill McCool under McAuliffe but if it is then that creates a problem with Ellsworth to the left of McCool because Ellsworth isn't under Klippstein, so unless this involves a row change then one or the other can't be right.

[deweyinthehall]

This was sitting in plain sight for so long earlier on this thread - Phillies team under Hargan. The only cards it could be (gray color, not in another row already) were Hargan, Banks and Linz. The thickness variations in the visible border make it a cinch for Hargan. This creates another 5 card partial column - Hargan, Phillies, Buchek, Wynn and Ferrara.

[deweyinthehall]

I was going to argue again about why Hatton was over the A's team instead of the Phillies - even though Phillies is under Hargan, could be under Hatton on the other slit - but since Hatton is now confirmed next to Wyatt, this places him in a 3 card partial column and since Phillies team is in a 5 card partial, well that's that. Hatton over the A's team.

[deweyinthehall]

I've long wondered why it can't be Rollins to the right of Ellsworth in the diamond miscut - the grass color is much darker than Ellsworth's in both cases, and trying to be precise on color tone with that poor image is dicey. I'm not saying it IS Rollins, just asking why it couldn't be. For you does it come down to the darker green on McCool?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

I've long wondered why it can't be Rollins to the right of Ellsworth in the diamond miscut - the grass color is much darker than Ellsworth's in both cases, and trying to be precise on color tone with that poor image is dicey. I'm not saying it IS Rollins, just asking why it couldn't be. For you does it come down to the darker green on McCool?

Holy smokes, you're right. I have had it in my mind that it had to be either McCool or Oliva to the right of Ellsworth, Rollins makes perfect sense and he's a 4x. I think we can put McCool under McAuliffe now.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

This was sitting in plain sight for so long earlier on this thread - Phillies team under Hargan. The only cards it could be (gray color, not in another row already) were Hargan, Banks and Linz. The thickness variations in the visible border make it a cinch for Hargan. This creates another 5 card partial column - Hargan, Phillies, Buchek, Wynn and Ferrara.

Nice! That means one of the two remaining cards in the column is a Cub or a White Sock above Hargan. Could it be Covington?

[Cliff Bowman]

I can't believe it but we actually have a 1966 6th Series cluster going.

???????? - ?????? - Cannizzaro - ??????
***l*******l********l********l***
???????? - ?????? - *Belinsky* - ??????
***l*******l********l********l***
*Howard - Hatton - **Wyatt** - ??????
***l*******l********l********l***
*Oliva* - A's Team - *Blefary* - ??????
***l*******l*********l********l***
Simmons - Radatz - Klippstein - McAuliffe
***l*******l********l********l***
Ellsworth - Rollins - ????????? - McCool

[deweyinthehall]

I show it could be Covington, Stanky, Wilhelm or John in the Hargan column - do you prefer Covington due to card counts?

On McCool under McAuliffe - why McCool? We have McAuliffe in a column of 1 right now - the only blue cards it couldn't be are those in columns 1 and 10 and those in the Klippstein and Radatz columns to his left - together these are Nuxhall, Rollins, Klippstein and Edwards. Could still be McCool, Coleman or Oliva, no?

Can you re-post the card count list you're using for reference? I did one way back on the first page of this thread.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by deweyinthehall

I show it could be Covington, Stanky, Wilhelm or John in the Hargan column - do you prefer Covington due to card counts?

On McCool under McAuliffe - why McCool? We have McAuliffe in a column of 1 right now - the only blue cards it couldn't be are those in columns 1 and 10 and those in the Klippstein and Radatz columns to his left - together these are Nuxhall, Rollins, Klippstein and Edwards. Could still be McCool, Coleman or Oliva, no?

Can you re-post the card count list you're using for reference? I did one way back on the first page of this thread.

1. That column has three 4x cards in it, Buchek, Wynn, Ferrara, the two missing cards have to be 3x. John, Stanky, and Wilhelm are all 4x.

2. That blue card has to be 4x, Oliva and Edwards are 3x and Oliva is already in the cluster on a 3x row and Edwards is a right edge card.

[Cliff Bowman]

The card above Frank Howard is a Tiger or a Cardinal and has to be a 4x. Fox, Skinner, Wood, McAuliffe, and Simmons are eliminated, and Woodeshick is a 3x. That leaves Lolich and Buchek. Lolich is in another column with five confirmed cards. That leaves Buchek. I know he has the Phillies Team card above him, but I don't remember why you have Buchek and the Phillies Team card in a column with Wynn and Ferrara?

[Cliff Bowman]

The Cub above Hargan is Dick Ellsworth, the column is complete at seven cards and goes:

Hargan
Phillies Team
Buchek
Howard
Oliva
Simmons
Ellsworth

[Cliff Bowman]

Here's an update of the cluster:

Richardson - Johnson - *Hargan* - ??????? - ????????? - Yankees Rookies
***l**********l*********l********l********l******* ****l***
*Rodgers* - Jimenez - Phillies Tm - ?????? - Cannizzaro - **Bressoud**
***l*********l********l********l********l********* ***l**
**Lolich* - O'Donoghue- Buchek - ?????? - *Belinsky* - ??????????
***l*********l********l********l********l********* ***l***
*Bunker* - ????????? - *Howard* - Hatton - **Wyatt** - ????????
***l*********l********l********l*********l******** ***l***
*Bob Lee* - ??????? - **Oliva** - A's Team - *Blefary* - ????????
***l*********l*********l********l*********l******* ***l****
*Wynn* - ????????? - **Simmons - Radatz - Klippstein - **McAuliffe
***l*********l********l********l********l********* **l****
Ferrara - **Bennett - *Ellsworth - *Rollins - ????????? - **McCool*

[Kevvyg1026]

I show that the Buchek/Phillies vertical MC was id'd because of the recurring dot seen on the Phillies card. And you also have the Phillies TC mc.

1966_463_TC.jpg

and this MC of Wynn with a Phil or Indian above

1966_520_TC.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

I show that the Buchek/Phillies vertical MC was id'd because of the recurring dot seen on the Phillies card. And you also have the Phillies TC mc.

Attachment 650158

and this MC of Wynn with a Phil or Indian above

Attachment 650159

Oops, I am wrong about that first column then, Bob Lee doesn’t go over Jim Wynn.

[Kevvyg1026]

Was this ever id'd? card below Coleman


1966_494_bottom.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Was this ever id'd? card below Coleman


Attachment 650160

No, I now suspect Tommy John to go under Johnny Klippstein but the only thing holding that up is the possibility of John going under Coleman. Tommy John is a 4x and is under a Twin/Red.

[Kevvyg1026]

doesn't look like a WS or Cub banner color under Coleman, so that might make it difficult for TJ to be under Coleman.

Why couldn't TJ be under Rollins?

Also, haven't seen much on Pirates RS and only that Red Sox RS might be under Schofield

[Kevvyg1026]

Wilhelm may be a top row card

1966_510_top_edge.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

doesn't look like a WS or Cub banner color under Coleman, so that might make it difficult for TJ to be under Coleman.

Why couldn't TJ be under Rollins?

Also, haven't seen much on Pirates RS and only that Red Sox RS might be under Schofield

Tommy John is a 4x, he can't go under Rollins and into that 3x column. I am nearly convinced that Podres goes under Rollins now.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026

Wilhelm may be a top row card

Attachment 650179

He is, he is either in the Aaron row or the Gonzalez row.