auto racing cards

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I don't really play around with any of the newer Topps releases outside of the cheaper Match Attax cards, so maybe the newer shinier stuff is still getting lots of interest, but the vintage stuff seems to be definitely on the way back down.

The Topps F1 cards have crashed in price, even Hamilton's stuff. Guys like Charles LeClerc and Lando Norris, whose careers were on a much more upward trajectory a year or two ago, have really fallen off a cliff.

How would you like to be holding some high-end Mick Schumacher these days?

[todeen]

Any Marlboro driver, especially Penske, is my favorite. Nice Prost.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by todeen

Any Marlboro driver, especially Penske, is my favorite. Nice Prost.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

Thank you.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

How would you like to be holding some high-end Mick Schumacher these days?

I think I have a 20 count lot of Mick's 1st Topps Now F1 Card (not his 1st F2 card) laying around here somewhere.

At $4.95 apiece, I paid waaay too much for them LOL!



Thought he had a lot of potential, but he really regressed last year. Didn't anticipate he wouldn't even have a car this year. Maybe a couple more years getting seasoning as a reserve driver, and he'll be back at it again.

[Kzoo]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

The Topps F1 cards have crashed in price, even Hamilton's stuff. Guys like Charles LeClerc and Lando Norris, whose careers were on a much more upward trajectory a year or two ago, have really fallen off a cliff.:

My son and I are collecting the 2020 Topps Chrome Refractor driver portrait cards in PSA 10. We started our quest last fall and I think we have 12 of the 20 so far. Yes, the Hamilton has really dropped from the $4-5k peak it hit in late 2021, but it still brings roughly $1200-1400 now. I'm really ok with this, as we haven't bought one yet.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think I have a 20 count lot of Mick's 1st Topps Now F1 Card (not his 1st F2 card) laying around here somewhere.

At $4.95 apiece, I paid waaay too much for them LOL!



Thought he had a lot of potential, but he really regressed last year. Didn't anticipate he wouldn't even have a car this year. Maybe a couple more years getting seasoning as a reserve driver, and he'll be back at it again.

I think at some point, he will get another place on the F1 grid. But his Topps Chrome and Sapphire was on fire for a while. Some of his stuff looks like it's down 60-70 percent from a year ago.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Kzoo

My son and I are collecting the 2020 Topps Chrome Refractor driver portrait cards in PSA 10. We started our quest last fall and I think we have 12 of the 20 so far. Yes, the Hamilton has really dropped from the $4-5k peak it hit in late 2021, but it still brings roughly $1200-1400 now. I'm really ok with this, as we haven't bought one yet.

Great. Always good to see more collectors of racing cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Where do you guys rank Stirling Moss?

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Where do you guys rank Stirling Moss?

He is almost universally regarded as the best driver never to win an F1 world championship. From 1955-61, he was never lower than third in the points standings. In addition, his sportsmanship gave Mike Hawthorn the 1958 championship.

From a collector's standpoint, though, I think it is hard to get excited about him or feel that he is a must have in a collection because he never won a championship. Moss had a better overall career than F1 champions like Hawthorn, Phil Hill, Denny Hulme and Keke Rosberg, but not winning the championship at least once really hurts Moss' place in the history of the sport, IMO.

As a collector, I would rather put together a card of every F1 world champion, even the weak ones, before a card of Moss.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Thanks, that makes sense.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Any thoughts on this Fangio?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11572688573...Bk9SR5yYw5ekYg

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Any thoughts on this Fangio?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11572688573...Bk9SR5yYw5ekYg

That is a viable Fangio rookie card. I don't know if there was a find or what, but there have been lots of Chocolat L'Aiglon Fangio cards hitting the market over the past year or so. Up until a year or so ago, I rarely seen that card. Lately, both Goldin and eBay have had a steady stream of that card.

Other than some super obscure Fangio cards or discs that will sell for $1,000+, that is just about the earliest mainstream Fangio to have (AFAIK). He does have some other 1952 options, but I think the Chocolat L'Aiglon is the best looking. As for the particular card you linked to, if you are patient, you will be able to pick up a cheaper copy on eBay at auction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

That is a viable Fangio rookie card. I don't know if there was a find or what, but there have been lots of Chocolat L'Aiglon Fangio cards hitting the market over the past year or so. Up until a year or so ago, I rarely seen that card. Lately, both Goldin and eBay have had a steady stream of that card.

Other than some super obscure Fangio cards or discs that will sell for $1,000+, that is just about the earliest mainstream Fangio to have (AFAIK). He does have some other 1952 options, but I think the Chocolat L'Aiglon is the best looking. As for the particular card you linked to, if you are patient, you will be able to pick up a cheaper copy on eBay at auction.

Maybe someone is reprinting them. Happens with soccer I understand. I guess they would tend to be higher grade though if that were the case?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Wow.
https://goldin.co/item/1951-editrice...a-ex-mt-66v194

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe someone is reprinting them. Happens with soccer I understand. I guess they would tend to be higher grade though if that were the case?

I don't know, maybe? If that is the case, a lot of them are slipping through PSA and SGC. I know any card can be reprinted, but a Juan Manuel Fangio card just seems like a relatively minimal amount of return if someone was trying to scam.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I don't know, maybe? If that is the case, a lot of them are slipping through PSA and SGC. I know any card can be reprinted, but a Juan Manuel Fangio card just seems like a minimal amount of return if someone was trying to scam.

I suppose that's right. Another card I see a lot of now is the 1990 or 91 Panini Voetball Bergkamp, used to see those only rarely. I suppose the explosion in soccer prices could explain that.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Wow.
https://goldin.co/item/1951-editrice...a-ex-mt-66v194

Copies of that Fangio card show up on eBay from time to time at an astronomical BIN price. I don't think I have ever seen one at auction on eBay.

[Bored5000]

Here is my most recent pick up: a 1965 Lampo Jim Clark. Of all the early Clark options, the Lampo is my favorite. Like most other cards, prices went crazy for a while during Covid. I was happy to pick up this example for a decent price a few weeks ago.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Tough card to find with good centering, nice one. I have to upgrade my 66 Panini to a 65 some day.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I took the plunge and went Top Trumps.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Tough card to find with good centering, nice one. I have to upgrade my 66 Panini to a 65 some day.

Thanks, Peter. You are right about there being some horrendously off-center Lampo's out there. Clark has a 1965 Perfetti candy card that is also an option.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why grading these days is a joke. IMO this card should be a 9 or at worst an 8. SGC LOL.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I took the plunge and went Top Trumps.

Nice pick up, Peter. Formula 1's history is filled with dominant drivers and teams. But this is really looking like a season for the ages, 10 of 12 wins on the year and the last eight races in a row.

Wonder how many of the new fans that started following F1 in 2021 on the strength of Drive to Survive and a once in a generation title battle have come to the realization that very few F1 seasons are like 2021.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Nice pick up, Peter. Formula 1's history is filled with dominant drivers and teams. But this is really looking like a season for the ages, 10 of 12 wins on the year and the last eight races in a row.

Wonder how many of the new fans that started following F1 in 2021 on the strength of Drive to Survive and a once in a generation title battle have come to the realization that very few F1 seasons are like 2021.

Haha, I got hooked in the 1st couple seasons of "Drive To Survive". They didn't even bother covering the Mercedes team. I was hooked on the edge of my seat wondering if Daniel Ricciardo or Pierre Gasly would finish in the points.

Also, why was Haas so bad at racing, but so damn entertaining on TV?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why grading these days is a joke. IMO this card should be a 9 or at worst an 8. SGC LOL.

SGC tough on Panini's and foreign issues. If there's the slightest dimple or print smudge on the card stock, they're going to nail you for it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

SGC tough on Panini's and foreign issues. If there's the slightest dimple or print smudge on the card stock, they're going to nail you for it.

...

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115887676223

Astonished by this.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115887676223

Astonished by this.

Always happy to see this thread get bumped.

I was watching that Petty card, but had not looked to see where it finished. That price is shocking. Even beyond the hammer price, there were four bidders above $1,577 and three above $2,200.

I wish I had kept all my Petty STPs. At one time, I had three of them. But I sold two of them on here for under $200, which was a fair price at the time. I get it that it is Richard Petty, but I did not see this type of explosion coming in his rookie card. Auctions for 1972 STP cards seem pretty few and far between these days.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Always happy to see this thread get bumped.

I was watching that Petty card, but had not looked to see where it finished. That price is shocking. Even beyond the hammer price, there were four bidders above $1,577 and three above $2,200.

I wish I had kept all my Petty STPs. At one time, I had three of them. But I sold two of them on here for under $200, which was a fair price at the time. I get it that it is Richard Petty, but I did not see this type of explosion coming in his rookie card. Auctions for 1972 STP cards seem pretty few and far between these days.

A PSA 6 sold in Goldin in 2021, which generally is considered the peak of insanity, for under 1000. I do not get it at all. Pent up demand maybe? There was a defect in his hair too.

I have two of them (only 4s) and I always joked with people that it was the 52 Mantle of miscellaneous sports but maybe there is something to that.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A PSA 6 sold in Goldin in 2021, which generally is considered the peak of insanity, for under 1000. I do not get it at all. Pent up demand maybe? There was a defect in his hair too.

I have two of them (only 4s) and I always joked with people that it was the 52 Mantle of miscellaneous sports but maybe there is something to that.

My remaining 1972 Petty is also a PSA 4. I have a complete, 11-card set of 1972 STPs. I have told this story before, but when I was putting together the set, I bought some STP cards off an elderly lady in Connecticut who picked them up originally as they were given away at the STP sponsor table at the 1972 Daytona 500.

Anyway, the woman included a handwritten note along with my cards saying that she wanted me to call her to talk about the STP cards. I felt super weird calling an old woman I did not even know, but she was such a nice lady and was informative about the set. One of the comments she casually made was that she thought her full set of the cards were probably worth about $2,000, and all the value was in the two Fred Lorenzen cards from the set. When I put together my STP set, I didn't feel any huge excitement about picking up Petty cards from the set. My excitement was in finding the Fred Lorenzen white whales that some long-time collectors had chased for over 20 years. The woman I talked with on the phone explained that fans could grab as many STP cards as they wanted that year at Daytona (and few fans were interested) other than the two Lorenzen cards. Those two cards were not available at all.

The Petty STP card has skyrocketed in value over the past few years, yet cards of the second winningest NASCAR driver of all-time (David Pearson) are still worth next to nothing. It is a mystery why Pearson is not in the STP set, yet journeymen like Elmo Langley, Dick Brooks, James Hylton and Charlie Glotzbach are. Pearson doesn't have an iconic rookie card like the Petty STP card.

With regard to the 1952 Topps Mantle of miscellaneous sports cards, I think the 1982 Hulk Hogan Wrestling All-Stars is a great candidate. That thing has exploded in value over the past years, and examples used to sit on eBay forever as BINs for under $200.

The 1983 Dale Earnhardt Uno card is another card that has exploded in value in the past five years. That is his true rookie card, but I really dislike the Uno cards as an option.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I hate the Uno Earhardt. Recent sales all over the map, an 8.5 selling for double a 9?

A miscellaneous card that does not get any recognition is the Karelin 1998 Culture House. Very hard to find one, a great looking card, and depicts arguably the most dominant athlete ever. I think he went a decade without a POINT being scored on him. Not only that, perhaps surprisingly given his appearance, he was an intellectual -- a chess player and student of the arts. He went on to politics.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I hate the Uno Earhardt. Recent sales all over the map, an 8.5 selling for double a 9?

A miscellaneous card that does not get any recognition is the Karelin 1998 Culture House. Very hard to find one, a great looking card, and depicts arguably the most dominant athlete ever. I think he went a decade without a POINT being scored on him. Not only that, perhaps surprisingly given his appearance, he was an intellectual -- a chess player and student of the arts. He went on to politics.

I remember you talking about the Karelin card previously. You are much more knowledgeable of that card than I am, but I think that card may always be underappreciated because Karelin is Russian. Even before the Ukraine invasion, I think it was hard to show off a Russian who is only known to many Americans for suffering one of sports' great upsets.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I remember you talking about the Karelin card previously. You are much more knowledgeable of that card than I am, but I think that card may always be underappreciated because Karelin is Russian. Even before the Ukraine invasion, I think it was hard to show off a Russian who is only known to many Americans for suffering one of sports great upsets.

Fair points. Nonetheless still an incredible athlete with an almost nonexistent rookie (and only) card -- PSA population 8. You are not exactly going to surf ebay or walk into a show and find one.

Another card and I guess you could argue it isn't sports, but you NEVER see the 2012 FaceChess Magnus Carlsen. Unless you look below of course.

[Peter_Spaeth]

...

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

...

Awesome Mario, Peter. The prices on his 1969 Panini have retreated from the Covid craziness. I am on the lookout for a low to mid-grade 1969 Panini Mario.

[Bored5000]

A couple more stunning STP Petty sales happened on eBay in recent days:

A PSA 6 went for $3,700 on September 5 and a different PSA 6 sold for $4,100 on September 6:

Seems like there is a full-blown STP Petty mania at hand right now. That is why I always think the best answers on what card will increase most in value (percentage wise) over any given time period are usually some under the radar non-sports card rather than an already pricey Ruth, Cobb, Jackie card.

[Exhibitman]

I recently picked up a giant lot of NASCAR postcards and premiums including a run of Petty PCs starting in 1962.

The earliest, a 1962 postcard from Racing Pictorial, shows a 25 year old Richard with his father Lee. It is from a set of Daytona PCs from 1962. That's the lower one shown. The top one is from 1972. I like the inset image, too cool for school. What I did not notice until yesterday was that the 1972 PC is signed at the lower right. Nice vintage ballpoint signature.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Are these the two earliest or are there others from the 60s?

[Exhibitman]

I also have a 1969 and 1970 but I didn't scan them yet. I have a run of Petty PCs from 1969 through the early 1980s when they stopped making them and switched to larger format premiums, then a big run of premiums after that. The collection has about 60 Petty pieces and another 75 or so of a few other drivers: HOFers Buddy Baker and Benny Parsons, and a few others. Plus some vintage bumper stickers and promo pieces.

I am going to be selling the collection. Probably gonna keep the early ones for single sales and put the rest into a large lot.

[Exhibitman]

As an aside, at the Anaheim show, one collector came to my table looking for F1 stuff and said he was a very serious F1 vintage collector. Odd thing was, when I started asking him about really old F1 sets and issues, he clearly did not know what I was talking about. Like, there are some really nice So. American Juan Manuel Fangio cards from Argentina, but I don't think he'd ever heard of them.

[Bored5000]

I like the older NASCAR postcards that pre-date the 1972 STP set. Obviously, racing is always going to lag behind the big stick and ball sports value wise. But it kind of surprises me that postcards of guys like Fireball Roberts and Joe Weatherly, who did not have standard cards during their lifetimes, sell for almost nothing.

I am not much of an autograph collector, but there has been a Weatherly /Roberts signed postcard on eBay for $400 for a long time. By eBay BIN standards, that doesn't seem like a bad price for two very tough early NASCAR stars that died in the '60s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385910656658

[Exhibitman]

There's also a signed 1962 Roberts from the same Daytona set as my Petty:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26440554294

Set has at least four cards: Petty, Roberts, Weatherly, White

[Exhibitman]

These are all postcards:

1969 Buddy Baker:



1969 Richard Petty:



1970 Benny Parsons:



1972 Benny Parsons:



1973 Buddy Baker:

[D. Bergin]

That '73 Buddy Baker is a cool looking postcard.

[Peter_Spaeth]

69 Petty is very cool.

[Exhibitman]

The producers seem to follow a pattern each year, so I guess they are sets.

[D. Bergin]

Sorry, got a chuckle when I stumbled across this Lewis Hamilton card on Ebay.


You think PSA would have done this to Verstappen?





https://www.ebay.com/itm/12610172703...&segname=11021

[gonefishin]

I see there are a few NASCAR fans on this thread also. Here are a few of my cards, including King Petty and the Intimidator Earnhardt (and son Jr.)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Speaking of Janet...

[Exhibitman]

Speaking of trailblazers, I found this 1973 postcard of Wendell Scott in the lot:




Quite the backstory of this HOFer, per Wikipedia:

"Scott began his racing career in local circuits in the late 1940s and obtained his NASCAR license in 1953, making him the first African-American ever to compete in NASCAR. He debuted in the Grand National Series(NASCAR highest level)on March 4, 1961 in Spartanburg, South Carolina. On December 1, 1963, he won a Grand National Series race at Speedway Park in Jacksonville, Florida, becoming the first black driver and team owner to win at NASCAR's premier level. Scott's career was repeatedly affected by racial prejudice including being poisoned (Dover) and death threats (Spartanburg, Darlington, Talladega, Jacksonville, and Daytona). Despite these challenges he continued to compete and was posthumously inducted into the International Motorsports Hall of Fame & NASCAR Hall of Fame in 2015."