Goldin Increasing Buyer's Premium

[jsfriedm]

Goldin has apparently increased their buyer's premium to 22%. I agree, of course, that all bidders should be doing the math and know the full cost of their bids, so I am not claiming deception or anything here. But given that 20% is pretty standard and the proliferation of auctions and auction houses should in theory make competition more intense, is anyone surprised that Goldin is raising, rather than lowering the buyer's premium? Do we think other auction houses are likely to follow? Does anyone expect this to hurt Goldin at all?

[t206fanatic]

Buyer's Premium only matters to sellers [and very uneducated buyers], so would imagine this would impact their ability to get good material for upcoming auctions.

[scooter729]

There was a time in the not-too-distant past, that I remember 15% BP being the standard. Then someone went to the unheard-of 20% BP, and we thought it would impact their ability to get consignments. Now most auction houses are at 20%.

Hopefully it stays as just being Goldin at 22%, but I fear there are other shoes to drop across the industry in the near future.....

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Goldin has apparently increased their buyer's premium to 22%. I agree, of course, that all bidders should be doing the math and know the full cost of their bids, so I am not claiming deception or anything here. But given that 20% is pretty standard and the proliferation of auctions and auction houses should in theory make competition more intense, is anyone surprised that Goldin is raising, rather than lowering the buyer's premium? Do we think other auction houses are likely to follow? Does anyone expect this to hurt Goldin at all?

Is this because they're having to give more juice back to their consignors to remain competitive with the other Major Auction Houses???? Could be..it's business.

[Exhibitman]

What they are signaling is that unless you have really great stuff and thus the leverage to negotiate for a share of the BP, they are going to take an even bigger cut of the action.

[bobbyw8469]

I predict 25% will be the new standard soon.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I'll say we're trying to hold the line at 18% and no extra charge for credit card or paypal, but it's tough, because people still expect you to give back on the BP for the best stuff even though we're collecting 2-6% less in the first place.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I predict 25% will be the new standard soon.

At some point if you're a consignor of anything but elite cards, it doesn't make sense to give up 25 percent of the sale price to an auction house.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At some point if you're a consignor of anything but elite cards, it doesn't make sense to give up 25 percent of the sale price to an auction house.

It's absurd. Why would anyone pay this? Just put it on ebay or send it to Probstein where he only charges 5%

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I predict 25% will be the new standard soon.

Why not? The major auctions have no shortage of material. Capitalize on the market.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I predict 25% will be the new standard soon.

Goldin takes credit cards for an additional 3% fee so their BP is at 25% if one pays that way.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Goldin takes credit cards for an additional 3% fee so their BP is at 25% if one pays that way.

They are just passing the CC fee on to the buyer instead of eating it themselves.

[philo98]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Goldin takes credit cards for an additional 3% fee so their BP is at 25% if one pays that way.

Looking back at my Goldin invoices I was never charged a credit card fee. Each invoice shows $0.00 for this.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Is this because they're having to give more juice back to their consignors to remain competitive with the other Major Auction Houses???? Could be..it's business.

Doesn't seem like it. Consignors pay a 5% seller's premium up to 2,500, get 0% of the buyer's premium up to 7,500, and only get a 5% cut beyond that.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Doesn't seem like it. Consignors pay a 5% seller's premium up to 2,500, get 0% of the buyer's premium up to 7,500, and only get a 5% cut beyond that.

Yeah, that's recent to. They're giving less juice and charging seller's premiums where they didn't used to.

Fairly recently I sent a submission of modern-ish cards I didn't really want to handle myself to the vault, to eventually auction/sell on the Goldin platform.

There was no additional sellers premium or listing fee for anything that sold over $25.00. Now that bottom level was jacked all the way up to $2500 bucks, on top of the 2% increase in the buyers premium.

So essentially, a 20% selling fee went up to a 27% selling fee, since I don't generally play in the higher end playground.

I had what was left sent back to me. I guess I'll go back to dealing with the hassle of Ebay myself.

I understand them not wanting to handle that stuff. They probably discovered they didn't have enough incentive to inventory, store, handle and ship out the cheaper cards in their weekly auctions.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Yeah, that's recent to. They're giving less juice and charging seller's premiums where they didn't used to.

Fairly recently I sent a submission of modern-ish cards I didn't really want to handle myself to the vault, to eventually auction/sell on the Goldin platform.

There was no additional sellers premium or listing fee for anything that sold over $25.00. Now that bottom level was jacked all the way up to $2500 bucks, on top of the 2% increase in the buyers premium.

So essentially, a 20% selling fee went up to a 27% selling fee, since I don't generally play in the higher end playground.

I had what was left sent back to me. I guess I'll go back to dealing with the hassle of Ebay myself.

I understand them not wanting to handle that stuff. They probably discovered they didn't have enough incentive to inventory, store, handle and ship out the cheaper cards in their weekly auctions.

OK, just got another e-mail from them stating that graded cards from the vault, are still at a 0% sellers commission, though buyers premium is still going up to 22%. $5 listing fee now applies for any card that sells below $50 now, instead of the previous 15 or 20 bucks or so...which I totally understand.

Not a huge deal, but wish they would have made that clearer with the earlier e-mail.

[ejharrington]

I hope they use the money to improve the website and search / sort function.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

OK, just got another e-mail from them stating that graded cards from the vault, are still at a 0% sellers commission, though buyers premium is still going up to 22%. $5 listing fee now applies for any card that sells below $50 now, instead of the previous 15 or 20 bucks or so...which I totally understand.

Not a huge deal, but wish they would have made that clearer with the earlier e-mail.

Only an idiot would pay a seller's commission

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Doesn't seem like it. Consignors pay a 5% seller's premium up to 2,500, get 0% of the buyer's premium up to 7,500, and only get a 5% cut beyond that.

I guarantee you that if I walk in with a T206 Wagner that number is 100% negotiable.

[bbcard1]

We are still very much in the FOMO phase of card buying. I think it will depend on how much of an influx of new money continues into the hobby. 22% may be sticky. You may also see a tiered % at some point.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I guarantee you that if I walk in with a T206 Wagner that number is 100% negotiable.

Or a complete T-Rex skull.

[Exhibitman]

Or any number of other items.

I get why they are doing it. Hot market. I was in the market for a new car earlier this year and wanted to go electric and take advantage of the tax rebate. In the two weeks I contemplated it, the Chevy dealer jacked up the price $900 because the cars were moving and they wanted a cut of the rebate money. When the market cools, the BP will be readily negotiable. Besides, there are so many AHs now that you can get a better deal elsewhere. it's not like Goldin brings any better expertise or better marketing to bear. Frankly, their site is clunky and they run so much crap all the time that it feels like anything under six figures is just thrown out there with a pro forma description and very little effort.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Or a complete T-Rex skull.

Or a shark's tooth.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I guarantee you that if I walk in with a T206 Wagner that number is 100% negotiable.

And? The overwhelming majority of cards that people consign are at a much much much lower level.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Is this because they're having to give more juice back to their consignors to remain competitive with the other Major Auction Houses???? Could be..it's business.

You think Goldin is struggling to keep up?

[mrreality68]

The BP percent will not go down when the market cools and other Auction Houses will keep an eye on Goldin and if they feel Goldin is not losing consignments and sales from it then they will follow with increasing their BP percentage.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

The BP percent will not go down when the market cools and other Auction Houses will keep an eye on Goldin and if they feel Goldin is not losing consignments and sales from it then they will follow with increasing their BP percentage.

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

[jsfriedm]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I would predict Heritage would be the first to follow.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

Drew, I'll give it until the end of 2024.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I'd bet against this. I think each AH will analyze their situation (expenses, profit margin,) and make independent decisions. They won't simply follow Goldin like lemmings.

CU has a near monopoly situation with PSA and that registry. I think they underestimated the collective (pun intended) strength of all the other AH when they acquired Goldin. When you look at all the great stuff continually offered by the other AH, both the major and smaller ones, there's a ton of really high-quality items Goldin isn't getting a piece of.

In short, I think CU expected Goldin to dominate the AH space to a far greater extent than they are, and this price increase may be a reaction to that. IMO it will only give them a competitive disadvantage.

I would bet large that Hunt, specifically, will not go from 17.5% to 22% for at least a few years, if ever.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I predict all major AHs will now go to 22 percent by the beginning of 2024.

I'd take the under on that bet

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Tabe

You think Goldin is struggling to keep up?

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in imho.

This.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

Imma go out on a limb and suggest that the weekly auctions aren’t paying much of the debt service here. It’s the premier auctions that are doing the heavy lifting.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by raulus

Imma go out on a limb and suggest that the weekly auctions aren’t paying much of the debt service here. It’s the premier auctions that are doing the heavy lifting.

I'll posit the 2021 projections were generous at best. The business model was flawed imo at those heady levels. MJ rookies and the whole fomo all boats rise with the tide mentality took hold, when your talking about those corporate investment levels it's no longer about the hobby but serious ROI. I'm no expert thankfully, I'm just a collector but it's not rocket science to observe collectible economic cycles.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Golden now has to answer to CU and the stakes are much higher, for perspective if they had to pay the freight on a $200,000,000 loan at 7% the interest alone would be north of $1.6 million per month or $415,000 per weekly auction.

Of course the pressure is on, CU paid at the top of the market with drunken projections for the future and a poorly designed platform.

Don't lose sight that Ken is a really, really good salesman and the CU gang were using OPM for their purchase.

It's an exhausting high stakes game that hobbyists don't even need to engage in, imho.

Good post

[Snapolit1]

I have no axe to grind re: Goldin. They are a board advertiser, and I have bought from them many times. I will say that their auctions, at least on the vintage side, have gotten real thin of late. Some of the weekly auctions are super unimpressive.

Everyone who rushed to weekly and monthly auctions should go back to 3 or 4 a year. Market has been changed and not for the better. It's relentless and waters down your product.

[Lucas00]

Anybody know what's going on with Goldins shipping times? I have a friend who's been waiting over two weeks for his win to ship, and I've been waiting nearly a week and a half for mine. That is unacceptable for a large auction house. I've never had it take longer than 3 days, and I've bought from many different AHs.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Anybody know what's going on with Goldins shipping times? I have a friend who's been waiting over two weeks for his win to ship, and I've been waiting nearly a week and a half for mine. That is unacceptable for a large auction house. I've never had it take longer than 3 days, and I've bought from many different AHs.

I don't know the "what" of what is going on, but I've bought a few things over the last couple months and it has been about 13 calendar days post-auction (if payment is made right away) until a shipping label is created. I fully agree that's way too long to ship stuff that you already have in your possession.

[3-2-count]

Same here. Below is what I received after contacting them via email about the delay.

Thank you for reaching out to us. I apologize for the delay in your items being shipped to you, but I am happy to verify that your order is being processed and that the shipping label has been printed for your order. Our shipping team will be packing and preparing your order as soon as possible. The shipping team has experienced a delay in order processing due to an issue beyond their control. They are currently working overtime to correct these delays starting with the oldest orders. Your order should be shipping out within the next week and your tracking information will be confirmed in a separate correspondence and visible directly through your Goldin account. I appreciate your patience and understanding as we work through this. Please let me know if I can assist with anything further and I will be happy to help. I do hope you enjoy the rest of your day! Regards,

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Same here. Below is what I received after contacting them via email about the delay.

Thank you for reaching out to us. I apologize for the delay in your items being shipped to you, but I am happy to verify that your order is being processed and that the shipping label has been printed for your order. Our shipping team will be packing and preparing your order as soon as possible. The shipping team has experienced a delay in order processing due to an issue beyond their control. They are currently working overtime to correct these delays starting with the oldest orders. Your order should be shipping out within the next week and your tracking information will be confirmed in a separate correspondence and visible directly through your Goldin account. I appreciate your patience and understanding as we work through this. Please let me know if I can assist with anything further and I will be happy to help. I do hope you enjoy the rest of your day! Regards,

Sounds like that good for nuthin' Bobby, the Procurement Director, forgot to order the packing tape again.

Brian

[Swadewade51]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Same here. Below is what I received after contacting them via email about the delay.



Thank you for reaching out to us. I apologize for the delay in your items being shipped to you, but I am happy to verify that your order is being processed and that the shipping label has been printed for your order. Our shipping team will be packing and preparing your order as soon as possible. The shipping team has experienced a delay in order processing due to an issue beyond their control. They are currently working overtime to correct these delays starting with the oldest orders. Your order should be shipping out within the next week and your tracking information will be confirmed in a separate correspondence and visible directly through your Goldin account. I appreciate your patience and understanding as we work through this. Please let me know if I can assist with anything further and I will be happy to help. I do hope you enjoy the rest of your day! Regards,

I got that same exact response. Been waiting the same time Lucas has. First and last time on Goldin.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[CardPadre]

Just got this email from Goldin about my winnings from 2 weeks ago. It's literally just 2 cards. Not only have they not shipped yet but now they are going to ship separately. Cannot even imagine why that would be necessary unless they can't find one of the cards right now, lol.

"William,

We're reaching out to update you on the delivery process for your winnings from our recent 2023 September Elite Auction. Your winnings will arrive in more than one package, and the packages may arrive several days apart. Once each package is shipped, you will receive an email from the shipping carrier with your tracking number.

Thank you for your continued trust in Goldin."

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Anybody know what's going on with Goldins shipping times? I have a friend who's been waiting over two weeks for his win to ship, and I've been waiting nearly a week and a half for mine. That is unacceptable for a large auction house. I've never had it take longer than 3 days, and I've bought from many different AHs.

To be fair to Goldin, I think this really depends on how the payment is made. If you send the payment by personal check or ACH, the auction house needs to wait for that payment to clear which often takes 2 weeks. This is common for all auction houses across the board. I sent my payment to Goldin via wire, and they took one week to ship after my payment. I thought this was a reasonable shipping time. I would also expect around a week if you paid by credit card.

The part that I do think is unreasonable for Goldin which I mentioned earllier in this thread is that in their invoice, Goldin states that if they do not receive payment within a week, they will start adding late payment fees. I still believe this is completely unreasonable, and they should revert to the industry standard of 2 weeks to receive payment. Often times, if you drop a check in the mail, it will not even arrive at the destination in one week, so I think this is unfair.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by glchen

To be fair to Goldin, I think this really depends on how the payment is made. If you send the payment by personal check or ACH, the auction house needs to wait for that payment to clear which often takes 2 weeks. This is common for all auction houses across the board. I sent my payment to Goldin via wire, and they took one week to ship after my payment. I thought this was a reasonable shipping time. I would also expect around a week if you paid by credit card.

The part that I do think is unreasonable for Goldin which I mentioned earllier in this thread is that in their invoice, Goldin states that if they do not receive payment within a week, they will start adding late payment fees. I still believe this is completely unreasonable, and they should revert to the industry standard of 2 weeks to receive payment. Often times, if you drop a check in the mail, it will not even arrive at the destination in one week, so I think this is unfair.

I did pay by card the day after winning, so as soon as possible. Gave them the benefit of the doubt and waited a week and a half to post about this. What made me really make the post was my friend who won an item from the 28th and paid asap had been waiting even longer. Obviously if he was still waiting, mine from days later was not getting shipped anytime soon.

Taking 2 weeks (2 and a half for some at this point) to ship auction winnings that were paid for the day after winning is unacceptable. They have a warehouse and a full team dedicated to shipping items. Many one man shows that run auction houses ship next day after payment!

I don't even think ebay allows this long, and they have the most lenient shipping rules of anyone.

I suspect my post here sped things up, as it should've. I would definitely be more understanding if Goldin came out and said something, maybe half their shipping team quit with no notice. I'd obviously be more understanding, but no statement was made.

[philo98]

I wrote to Goldin to delay my package and got a confirmation they would. Answe to not ship out to last week of October. Received a notice from UPS yesterday that my items were delivered. No idea who signed for them since nobody is home and most likely they have been left outside in a public place for the next 1+ weeks. Will see what happens when I get back but a complete failure on the shipping team.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by philo98

I wrote to Goldin to delay my package and got a confirmation they would. Answer to not ship out to last week of October. Received a notice from UPS yesterday that my items were delivered. No idea who signed for them since nobody is home and most likely they have been left outside in a public place for the next 1+ weeks. Will see what happens when I get back but a complete failure on the shipping team.

I will say, and I'm not one to jump to Goldin's defense ordinarily, shipping requests introduce the potential for failure. Most if not all auctions have systems in place for shipping and anything that throws a curve into that system introduces the potential for failure.

A customer asks us to hold a shipment, or to send something to grading for them or any one of innumerable other small seeming changes and there's nothing in our software that deals with those requests so we add notes and send an email to the shipping person etc. but you are still introducing the opportunity for human error.

That doesn't mean we don't do our damnedest to get it right, but of the shipping problems we've had, 99% have come about because something out of the ordinary pattern that our system is made for is requested.

The real question will be, if the package is missing, will they cop to the fact that they made a mistake and take care of you. Let's hope so.

[justrun7]

Originally Posted by philo98

I wrote to Goldin to delay my package and got a confirmation they would. Answe to not ship out to last week of October. Received a notice from UPS yesterday that my items were delivered. No idea who signed for them since nobody is home and most likely they have been left outside in a public place for the next 1+ weeks. Will see what happens when I get back but a complete failure on the shipping team.

I sent my items to their vault while I was away and then requested my shipment from the vault when I returned. It was actually cheaper too.

[Madi$on18joshua]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Goldin has apparently increased their buyer's premium to 22%. I agree, of course, that all bidders should be doing the math and know the full cost of their bids, so I am not claiming deception or anything here. But given that 20% is pretty standard and the proliferation of auctions and auction houses should in theory make competition more intense, is anyone surprised that Goldin is raising, rather than lowering the buyer's premium? Do we think other auction houses are likely to follow? Does anyone expect this to hurt Goldin at all?

What is salt in the wound for me is their turn around time! I paid via ACH on October 5. They told me I could expect my items to be delivered mid-November!!!! How is that even possible?

[kengoldin]

Hello all
I am writing to reply to obvious concerns about current shipping turnaround times at goldin.
I will be as brief as possible.
I am very aware of these issues.
I have prioritized TRADING CARD SHIPMENTS above all else.
Whatever timelines you may have been told if you corresponded with CS at goldin, please disregard. This will be fixed ASAP and timelines drastically moved up .
Keep in mind that many items , especially in weekly auctions, are stored in and shipped from the PSA vault. For those items, there is no way to avoid 2 different shipping locations and 2 different ship dates. That said all available resources are being put into effect to speed up everyone’s ship timelines with the goal being by the end of October elite, we are back to our normal shipping schedule and turnaround times you have been accustomed to in dealing with us since 2012.
If you wish, you can stop reading here, below is more detail.

As some of you know (i realize many may not ) I very recently took back the reigns as CEO of Goldin. The prior CEO had the vision of being everything to everyone, and being able to sell $15 cards the same way as $15,000 cards. (that clearly was never and is not my vision). Weekly auctions were built and the company accepted items with no minimums, anything went. This lead to some auctions containing as many as 7000 lots, and came at us EVERY WEEK. These massive weekly auctions with low value lots severely backed up every aspect of goldin. That CEO is no longer at goldin, and I took back over. The first thing I did was put measures in place to stop the influx of very low end items clogging the pipeline. (It’s not as easy or as fast as it sounds ) but those efforts are working. Bottom line, I do NOT think $10-$100 items is in our wheelhouse, and I always envisioned a Tiffany/rolls Royce style company with white glove service to match. That is NOT the type of service you are getting today if you are in this shipping backlog and I clearly understand that. With that said, please know that the we have stopped the cause of the backlog, and will be working as priority #1 to clear it asap, with my stated goal of being able to ship October elite (which closes October 28) in our normal shipping time.
In addition, with respect to the vault shipped orders, I am working with PSA to put a system in place so that for our elite auctions (everything besides the ‘weekly’) 100% of the items will ship from our building. This will allow goldin to have better control over the produce and stop the multi shipment from multi locations. This likely will not be put in place until November or possibly December however.
My email is ken@goldin.com
If you have a specific issue, or question you would like answered, please email me directly. Please do not PM me here, as I rarely log into my account to read them, and I cannot reply with a copy to others in my company to help you like I can if you email me.
Thank you for your patience in our dealing with this cleanup, and it will be short lived. I clearly recognize slow shipping and unhappy customers is not the ingredients to running a successful business.
Thanks
Ken Goldin