SGC T206s....It needs to be brought up, it's scary, very scary if you are a collector

[CMIZ5290]

I'm really surprised nobody has brought this subject up. But, most members on this Forum seem to prefer SGC. SGC cards are bringing a fraction of what PSA cards sell for, primarily in high grade...

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I'm really surprised nobody has brought this subject up. SGC cards are bringing a fraction of what PSA cards are selling for, and I mean a fraction. I have said on this forum for years that PSA is far superior, extremely better resale value, but this latest trend is crazy, believe me. I actually think it's going to get worse. SGC 84's for $250-300? I have observed a lot of recently graded SGC t206s.....Ridiculous, not even close to PSA. I have a lot of SGC graded T206s, and I have been losing my ass. PSA will not cross them, so do you grab your nuts and crack them?

I don't collect T206's, but have thought about it on investment purposes based on the factors you stated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Econteachert205]

Kevin, I have of course noticed the same price gaps between sgc and psa. Just curious why they won't cross?

[pokerplyr80]

It's not just 206s either, I have noticed the same trend on many pre and post war cards. I'm not sure if it's due to the PSA registry or the perception that the standards are tougher at PSA. But it's clear that if you're buying cards as an investment PSA is the way to go.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Kevin, I have of course noticed the same price gaps between sgc and psa. Just curious why they won't cross?

I'm sure a lot of it is political, for whatever that's worth. The bottom line is SGC graded cards are nowhere near as strong as PSA, especially right now. There are a couple of T206 HOFer SGC 84's on Ebay right now that are ridiculous looking for the grade.

[Touch'EmAll]

This year I joined PSA and tried to cross a handful of high end cards ($750-$3500.). I only was successful with a Ty Cobb Colgan's Chips going from SGC 88, now PSA 8. There went a few hundred bucks out the window.

But I do know I bought the SGC cards for less - thats why I bought them. So I have decided to pay less for SGC, keep them, and be ok with that. Whenever I do sell, remember I paid less for them to begin with.

My SGC purchases are few these days, way vast majority of my stuff is PSA. For me to buy SGC they have to be 55/45 or better centered, and solid for the grade corners per my own eye. For instance, I picked up a sweet 1955 Topps Aaron SGC 88 that i swear up and down is every bit the equivalent of PSA 8, but I paid less, will keep in SGC, and be happy.

The way SGC grades off center material is one of their biggest pitfalls, they should have had OC designations like PSA - then bet SGC would fare better overall, just my 2 cents.

SGC does, however, grade a few issues PSA does not - I send them to SGC, no problems - example s74 silks, old Wheaties issues.

Pay no more than 80 percent of avg. PSA sales value,get very nice centered items, scrutinize corners with your own eye, then ok to buy SGC.

Done with crossovers, too many certain words exit my mouth. And too much money leaves my wallet.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

This year I joined PSA and tried to cross a handful of high end cards ($750-$3500.). I only was successful with a Ty Cobb Colgan's Chips going from SGC 88, now PSA 8. There went a few hundred bucks out the window.

But I do know I bought the SGC cards for less - thats why I bought them. So I have decided to pay less for SGC, keep them, and be ok with that. Whenever I do sell, remember I paid less for them to begin with.

My SGC purchases are few these days, way vast majority of my stuff is PSA. For me to buy SGC they have to be 55/45 or better centered, and solid for the grade corners per my own eye. For instance, I picked up a sweet 1955 Topps Aaron SGC 88 that i swear up and down is every bit the equivalent of PSA 8, but I paid less, will keep in SGC, and be happy.

The way SGC grades off center material is one of their biggest pitfalls, they should have had OC designations like PSA - then bet SGC would fare better overall, just my 2 cents.

SGC does, however, grade a few issues PSA does not - I send them to SGC, no problems - example s74 silks, old Wheaties issues.

Pay no more than 80 percent of avg. PSA sales value,get very nice centered items, scrutinize corners with your own eye, then ok to buy SGC.

Done with crossovers, too many certain words exit my mouth. And too much money leaves my wallet.

I hear you, just out of curiousity, what did you pay for the SGC 88 54 Topps Aaron? Now, what's it worth in a PSA 8?

[Econteachert205]

I collect lower grade tobacco so it effects me less. I can appreciate not wanting to crack and resubmit. I have bought cards graded good and very good that if resubmitted would only grade fair or poor. Again it matters less at the low end but if you have a nm in sgc t206 and you crack and resubmit and it only scores a 6 that could be hundreds of dollars. I have to believe it's mostly a registry issue, I think the bulk of collectors are aware sgc is reputable.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

I collect lower grade tobacco so it effects me less. I can appreciate not wanting to crack and resubmit. I have bought cards graded good and very good that if resubmitted would only grade fair or poor. Again it matters less at the low end but if you have a nm in sgc t206 and you crack and resubmit and it only scores a 6 that could be hundreds of dollars. I have to believe it's mostly a registry issue, I think the bulk of collectors are aware sgc is reputable.

Dennis.....Again, it's about value. I have never said SGC is not reputable, they are, absolutely...What I'm talking about is true value for the dollar, it's not even close....

[brewing]

I used to send 90% of my submissions to SGC, I now send 90% to PSA.

Outside of turnaround time PSA beats SGC up and down the block in everything else.

In the past 3 years the following actions have taken place by the companies.

SGC:
Revamped registry site, minimal improvement. Still irrelevant compared to PSA.
Changed flip and rechanged after customers voiced displeasure.

PSA:
New case which is harder to tamper with.
New Flip.
Upgraded Registry to allow for photo albums.
Released app that allows you to scan or input the registration number.

To me, it seems like either SGC isn't trying, doesn't want to improve , or is inept at marketing.

Brent Ingr@m

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by brewing

I used to send 90% of my submissions to SGC, I now send 90% to PSA.

Outside of turnaround time PSA beats SGC up and down the block in everything else.

In the past 3 years the following actions have taken place by the companies.

SGC:
Revamped registry site, minimal improvement. Still irrelevant compared to PSA.
Changed flip and rechanged after customers voiced displeasure.

PSA:
New case which is harder to tamper with.
New Flip.
Upgraded Registry to allow for photo albums.
Released app that allows you to scan or input the registration number.

To me, it seems like either SGC isn't trying, doesn't want to improve , or is inept at marketing.

Brent Ingr@m

I agree with everything you said.....plus I wonder how market share is with the 25-45 year olds..who will be defining the buying market the next 20 years..i assuming psa is getting a bigger market share ...

[brewing]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I agree with everything you said.....plus I wonder how market share is with the 25-45 year olds..who will be defining the buying market the next 20 years..i assuming psa is getting a bigger market share ...

I believe you are correct.

PSA tries to reach the younger demographic. While both have Twitter accounts, PSA uses theirs, while SGC hasn't posted in several years. It's FREE advertising, yet SGC ignores it.

This should matter to collectors with cards in SGC slabs. In 10 years, will SGC slabs be considered equal to GAI or worse? You can say buy the card, not the holder, but I think we can agree that it doesn't happen consistently.

[The Nasty Nati]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I agree with everything you said.....plus I wonder how market share is with the 25-45 year olds..who will be defining the buying market the next 20 years..i assuming psa is getting a bigger market share ...

I'm 29 and I can say no joke probably 90% of collectors in my age group collect either Beckett or PSA graded cards. You could even argue many have never heard of SGC. When you're getting back into collecting you generally like to collect cards you always wanted as a kid. Most of those cards are graded in PSA as my age group idolized stars from the 80s (if you're 30-45 years old probably 1970s players). From there you build loyalty to PSA especially because of the registry. Registry is so key. For teens they are collecting the modern players, and because modern card collecting is all about autograph cards, Beckett is very popular with teens today. SGC is totally nonexistent to them.

Also, a popular thing to do is to show your PSA submission mail returns on YouTube. You almost never see SGC videos online. People on this forum should post more SGC submission return videos to gain more interest in SGC for the younger crowd...it's all about social media these days.

Personally I collect SGC graded cards as I love the look of them with the T206s and for the simple fact that they are cheaper to submit and buy. That being said if I had to do it over again I would probably go with PSA as the registry is much stronger and like others have said, sell for more.

[ullmandds]

PSA's advantage is in the registry...and the marketing...which create a "perception" as has been stated. They most certainly do NOT offer a superior product to the other TPG'ers.

[packs]

In all honesty, if this is seriously a problem for someone, it's a problem you've created yourself by playing this game in the first place. Unless people start ponying up an extra few hundo for a PSA 1 or SGC 40, this is something that will never affect me.

[steve B]

SGC

The revamped registry isn't bad. But it's not a whole lot better than the old one.
Relevant? That's sort of silly. If you only collect PSA the SGC registry is just as irrelevant to you as the PSA registry is to me. Relevance is entirely subjective.

The changed then rechanged flip being a complaint is also amusing. They made a change customers didn't like and listened to their customers. I'm not seeing a problem other than a lack of market research that could have saved them some effort.

PSA

I haven't seen one, but from all I hear the new case is pretty good. Unless you use PSAs own storage boxes, then it's not so good. But a more tamper resistant case isn't a bad thing.

New flip?!?!? I didn't notice. really new? or just tweaks to the same design they've had since the start?

HEH! SGC registry had photos when I did my first submission- I forget when, maybe 2010? So much for innovation.

App? Haven't followed that. I'm betting I can't get it for my phone. It's apple/android only right? (Like every D*** app! Can I sue for discrimination? ) Just kidding, I know I probably can't.

SGC does have stuff they could do better. All companies do. I'd use PSA if they didn't have a silly cover charge. Pay me so you get the right to pay me ......for me that's pretty much a non starter.

Steve B

Originally Posted by brewing

I used to send 90% of my submissions to SGC, I now send 90% to PSA.

Outside of turnaround time PSA beats SGC up and down the block in everything else.

In the past 3 years the following actions have taken place by the companies.

SGC:
Revamped registry site, minimal improvement. Still irrelevant compared to PSA.
Changed flip and rechanged after customers voiced displeasure.

PSA:
New case which is harder to tamper with.
New Flip.
Upgraded Registry to allow for photo albums.
Released app that allows you to scan or input the registration number.

To me, it seems like either SGC isn't trying, doesn't want to improve , or is inept at marketing.

Brent Ingr@m

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by steve B

... I'd use PSA if they didn't have a silly cover charge. Pay me so you get the right to pay me ......for me that's pretty much a non starter.

Steve B

PSA hasn't required a membership to submit cards for grading in a long time. Yet, about once every six months or so, someone complains that they do.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

PSA hasn't required a membership to submit cards for grading in a long time. Yet, about once every six months or so, someone complains that they do.

Interesting.

They sure do hide that fact. Not a surprise since the club membership must be a good money maker.

I was just looking at the site, and it's a bit hard to find stuff. Kinda cluttered. Finally found the specials and they're not all that great this month. Nice price, but 25 card minimum and they need to be under $100 value . I think I've maybe done 30 -40 cards over several years. So while I can send in, it would be at the $17 rate which is a lot more than the $10 regular fee at SGC (whose specials this month are more than PSAs specials but with more value allowed and no minimum quantity. )

If I had a loads of modernish cards where the price difference would be worth it, I might join.
But for what I do SGC makes it really easy.

Steve B

[glchen]

Originally Posted by steve B

Interesting.

They sure do hide that fact. Not a surprise since the club membership must be a good money maker.

I was just looking at the site, and it's a bit hard to find stuff. Kinda cluttered. Finally found the specials and they're not all that great this month. Nice price, but 25 card minimum and they need to be under $100 value . I think I've maybe done 30 -40 cards over several years. So while I can send in, it would be at the $17 rate which is a lot more than the $10 regular fee at SGC (whose specials this month are more than PSAs specials but with more value allowed and no minimum quantity. )

If I had a loads of modernish cards where the price difference would be worth it, I might join.
But for what I do SGC makes it really easy.

Steve B

That's right. You don't need a PSA membership to submit to PSA. However, if you want to use their specials, then you do need the membership. I've always found the membership worthwhile because for the Platinum membership, it averages out to ~$17 per card which is about the same for that declared value when there is a special on it. And you also receive a year's subscription to the SMR magazine and the free gift. The current free gift is just a t-shirt, which isn't anything special, but in the past, I've gotten the Cracker Jack and T206 books, which are nice coffee table items.

I do admit this month's SGC $10 special for cards under $500 is especially good. However, PSA's special for cards under $100 are pretty decent also. It's pretty rare for the specials to break $6 these days, and 25 cards minimum isn't bad. (In comparison, this month's Beckett special is $7 per card, and you need to submit 100 cards minimum. Of course, Beckett does not have a declared value maximum for their specials. That's still a lot of cards, however.)

I thought that the ST qualifier for PSA was only for wax stains and not for other types of stains. I could be wrong, however.

[brewing]

I think PSA is the #1 TPG because they innovate and market their product. That is what drives their brand, not collectors following rumors.
Case in point: do a web search of baseball card grading blogs/articles and you'll see people listing the 2 major TPGs as PSA and Beckett. It's quite sad actually.

[the 'stache]

I'm still trying to get past the "Clayton Kershaw is overhyped" comment, myself.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I'm still trying to get past the "Clayton Kershaw is overhyped" comment, myself.

I think that post was limited to Kershaw's far less than stellar playoff performance to date, Bill.

Highest regards,

Larry

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

I think that post was limited to Kershaw's far less than stellar playoff performance to date, Bill.

Highest regards,

Larry

Hi Larry,

I thought about that, but the comparison was made that Kershaw was over-hyped, while Sale just dominates. Sale has never even pitched in the post season, so that would be an odd comparison, to me. Kershaw has been a very mixed bag in post season baseball, absolutely. There have been a few times he was quite good. But taken as a whole, he's been awful.

But to suggest that Kershaw is over-hyped because he plays in Los Angeles, while Sale somehow flies under the radar because he plays in Chicago, is silly, imho. Some of the most hyped athletes in American sports history-Michael Jordan, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, to name a few, have played their entire careers in Chicago (well, Jordan played two in Washington after being retired three years). That's not to question their greatness (or that of Chris Sale), but Kershaw has won three Cy Young Awards in four years (and was runner-up the other). He's been simply spectacular.

Since 1960, there have been 634 pitchers to throw 1,000 or more innings. Only Mariano Rivera, Hoyt Wilhelm (relievers) and Pedro Martinez have a higher ERA + in that time than Kershaw's 150. And since the start of the 2011 season, nearly five full seasons, his ERA + has been 167. That includes a record of 79-32 (.718 win pct), a 2.18 ERA, 1,122 Ks in 1,026.1 IP. His WHIP is a silly 0.951. He's led the National League in ERA and WHIP each of the last four years.

That's not hype, it's greatness. That 167 ERA + matches identically the same figure Sandy Koufax had in his last five seasons.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Hi Larry,

I thought about that, but the comparison was made that Kershaw was over-hyped, while Sale just dominates. Sale has never even pitched in the post season, so that would be an odd comparison, to me. Kershaw has been a very mixed bag in post season baseball, absolutely. There have been a few times he was quite good. But taken as a whole, he's been awful.

But to suggest that Kershaw is over-hyped because he plays in Los Angeles, while Sale somehow flies under the radar because he plays in Chicago, is silly, imho. Some of the most hyped athletes in American sports history-Michael Jordan, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton, to name a few, have played their entire careers in Chicago (well, Jordan played two in Washington after being retired three years). That's not to question their greatness (or that of Chris Sale), but Kershaw has won three Cy Young Awards in four years (and was runner-up the other). He's been simply spectacular.

Since 1960, there have been 634 pitchers to throw 1,000 or more innings. Only Mariano Rivera, Hoyt Wilhelm (relievers) and Pedro Martinez have a higher ERA + in that time than Kershaw's 150. And since the start of the 2011 season, nearly five full seasons, his ERA + has been 167. That includes a record of 79-32 (.718 win pct), a 2.18 ERA, 1,122 Ks in 1,026.1 IP. His WHIP is a silly 0.951. He's led the National League in ERA and WHIP each of the last four years.

That's not hype, it's greatness. That 167 ERA + matches identically the same figure Sandy Koufax had in his last five seasons.

And they both begin with K

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill all true, but when you get shelled in the playoffs it undercuts a lot of that in people's minds. Look at pre-roid confession ARod, whose legacy was already banged up from not performing in the post-season. Or, for much of his career, Bonds.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

And they both begin with K

I'm just really enjoying the fact that all three (Koufax, Kershaw, & Sale) are left-handed!!
.
.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Kershaw is the man...

I still thinks its cheesy for relievers to be in the Hall of Fame....Kershaw could of been great closer....so would Nolan ryan for example ..but would Rivera on the Yankees be a good starting pitcher.... Rivera is considered one of the best closers and he pitched like 1200 innings...Didn't Nolan ryan pitch that amount in like 7 years? Why does Nolan Ryan have to pitch another 15 years or so to prove his worth and pitch 5000+ innings....while rivera only has to pitch 1200

basially back to Kershaw....the fact hes a Starting Pitcher makes him more the man!

[brewing]

I agree John.

I see so much potential in SGC, but it seems they are content with their market share.

FWIW, I came here from the SGC board and once sang their greatness.
I still search for SGC cards, because I can get them cheaper.